Dipping into a thread I'm not really following is always risky but... I don't get it. You all believe, I imagine, that we can eventually change people to not be racist or sexist. Why would desire for prestige be so much more immutable than that?
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W odpowiedzi do to @neuralreckoning@tyrell_turing i jeszcze
It's not about desire, just a statement of belief. I think that we are wired to use prestige as a heuristic for evaluating people's competence. And I think this is deeply rooted, unlike sexism.
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W odpowiedzi do to @bradpwyble@tyrell_turing i jeszcze
But why do you think that? I'm sure people would have said the same about sexism 100 years ago.
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W odpowiedzi do to @neuralreckoning@tyrell_turing i jeszcze
Because there are/have been cultures without sexism. There have never been cultures without something like prestige, AFAIK.
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W odpowiedzi do to @bradpwyble@tyrell_turing i jeszcze
Is that true? Prestige seems to require a fairly advanced civilisation, no?
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W odpowiedzi do to @neuralreckoning@tyrell_turing i jeszcze
Hard to agree with that. Aren't dog packs basically governed by a form of prestige?
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W odpowiedzi do to @bradpwyble@tyrell_turing i jeszcze
I don't think strength is the same thing as prestige.
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W odpowiedzi do to @neuralreckoning@tyrell_turing i jeszcze
Not being an animal pychologist I can't get into that analogy in depth but I really think you're off base here when it comes to humans. Prestige based valuation has been fundamental to human culture since as far as back as we have records. There's nothing advanced about it.
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W odpowiedzi do to @bradpwyble @neuralreckoning i jeszcze
Hunter-gather communities didn't have a concept of prestige. Social hierarchy came about during the agricultural revolution, early communities were more classless. In bonobo society hierarchy exists but it's not as prominent and they are more philopatric. (Our closest cousins)
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W odpowiedzi do to @azhir_io @neuralreckoning i jeszcze
I'm not sure we know much about whether early hunter-gatherer communities had something like prestige as we're discussing it here. But I think we're drifting off topic. I agree entirely that prestige has negative aspects and we should work to mitigate the prestige-hyping.
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Yup, to clarify, when I used social hierarchy twice, it referred to two different phenomena. Social organisation in bonobo society is without class (in the classical sense), but there exists a flexible hierarchy to allow for decisions to be made and resources to be distributed.
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W odpowiedzi do to @azhir_io @bradpwyble i jeszcze
What about macaque society?
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W odpowiedzi do to @KordingLab @azhir_io i jeszcze
I don't think that prestige has to equal hierarchy either. It is possible for individuals to evaluate one another according to "metadata" without forming an organization based on that principle.
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