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avibryant's profile
Avi Bryant
Avi Bryant
Avi Bryant
@avibryant

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Avi Bryant

@avibryant

Happiest when working on Random Forests from random beaches.

Galiano Island
avibryant.com
Joined November 2006

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    1. Tony Garnock-Jones‏ @leastfixedpoint May 3

      Tony Garnock-Jones Retweeted Tony Garnock-Jones

      While Smalltalk's runtime model is incredibly dynamic, its *metamodel* is very very static indeed. This was part of the shift from Smalltalk-72 to -76: identification and baking-in of the meta patterns people were using, making them *legible* to tooling.https://twitter.com/leastfixedpoint/status/991978232797941760 …

      Tony Garnock-Jones added,

      Tony Garnock-Jones @leastfixedpoint
      Replying to @DRMacIver
      Oh, sorry. Just that Python, C etc lack a coherent story around what code *is* at different phases in a program. This makes writing IDEs, debuggers and other tooling incredibly hard. Lisp and Racket do better, and Smalltalk's excellent metamodel is in many ways its special sauce.
      2 replies 1 retweet 9 likes
    2.  📶‏ @coreload May 3
      Replying to @leastfixedpoint

      And then Alternate Reality Kit needed more dynamics and tried to hide the machinery. Which led to Self's more dynamic machinery. Which led to the Self's machinery creating "shadow" structures that look more like Smalltalk's... But then the web hit so funding went that direction.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Tony Garnock-Jones‏ @leastfixedpoint May 3
      Replying to @coreload

      Totally. It's interesting to think about the differences between Smalltalk's and Self's tooling. The latter I find harder to use, more low-level perhaps, and I speculate it's because Self has weaker invariants re: structure than Smalltalk offers, as a foundation for tooling.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. michaeljforster‏ @michaeljforster May 3
      Replying to @leastfixedpoint @coreload

      Avi Bryant summarised that nicely on the LL2 mailing list some years back.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Tony Garnock-Jones‏ @leastfixedpoint May 3
      Replying to @michaeljforster @coreload

      I would love to read that! Is there an archive copy available anywhere, do you know?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. michaeljforster‏ @michaeljforster May 3
      Replying to @leastfixedpoint @coreload

      I will see if I have a bookmark “filed away somewhere.”

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tony Garnock-Jones‏ @leastfixedpoint May 3
      Replying to @michaeljforster @coreload

      Thanks. I've found https://people.csail.mit.edu/gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/threads.html … , but it looks like @avibryant was very active in the discussions so it could be hard to find the specific post you're thinking of. Avi, do you remember this at all?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Avi Bryant‏ @avibryant May 3
      Replying to @leastfixedpoint @michaeljforster @coreload

      I remember making that argument (I think it also applies to why Ruby has never gotten Smalltalk-level tooling), but I’m not sure how I would find the LL1 post...

      7:17 AM - 3 May 2018 from Capital G, British Columbia
      • 1 Like
      • Tony Garnock-Jones
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. michaeljforster‏ @michaeljforster May 3
          Replying to @avibryant @leastfixedpoint @coreload

          Your last words, right there, as we, programmers, discuss finding your earlier words lost to technology...

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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