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arturjanc's profile
Artur Janc
Artur Janc
Artur Janc
@arturjanc

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Artur Janc

@arturjanc

Making the web platform more secure one Twitter flamewar at a time.

Zurich, Switzerland
Joined February 2012

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    1. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander May 17
      Replying to @kkotowicz

      I assume you’re talking about the same-site directive? It ignores scheme so that you can add the header to all responses without automatically blocking mixed passive content such as images.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. koto‏ @kkotowicz May 17
      Replying to @johnwilander

      I'm talking about From-Origin. Its usecase AIUI is limited to mitigating Spectre, which is not the authors concern, especially with such a high potential of breakage. Web deals with origins as sec boundaries, not OS processes.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander May 17
      Replying to @kkotowicz

      I’m talking about From-Origin too. And the fact that its “same-site” directive ignores scheme. What else is referring to HTTP? From-Origin fixes rogue cross-origin load visibility in general. But why wouldn’t Spectre be a web developer concern?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. koto‏ @kkotowicz May 17
      Replying to @johnwilander

      Because web developers should rely on SOP, and not get into process-layer implementation details of UAs. UAs should guarantee SOP works, and fix their bugs if it's not there (like with Spectre)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander May 17
      Replying to @kkotowicz

      The only plan the community has to defend SOP for reads is process per frame and eTLD+1 afaik. That’s not going to stop arbitrary cross-origin subresource loads. And will e.g. mid-range Android phones be able to spin up ~50 processes to load a webpage?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. koto‏ @kkotowicz May 17
      Replying to @johnwilander

      F-O is not a practical solution for web apps for prohibiting x-o loads. Setting it has extremely high possibility of breaking any complex app (which would benefit from Spectre hardenings the most), in a way that's hard to test for.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander May 17
      Replying to @kkotowicz

      The one thing that’s still discussed is whether F-O should allow origin whitelisting or not. Would that solve the problems you see? I just don’t want F-O to fail because of complexity.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. koto‏ @kkotowicz May 17
      Replying to @johnwilander

      I usually disagree with @arturjanc vehemently, but he outlined what's wrong with F-O on GitHub, and I agree completely. I want to tackle x-origin loads and call for stronger SOP just the same, but F-O is IMHO not the way for practical reasons.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc May 17
      Replying to @kkotowicz @johnwilander

      "Usually" might be an overstatement, how about "often"? ;-) More seriously, we collectively put some thought into this and summarized the main concerns in the doc linked from https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webappsec/2018May/0009.html … @johnwilander should we discuss the F-O adoption concerns in that doc / thread?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander May 17
      Replying to @arturjanc @kkotowicz

      I’m willing to discuss but I’d appreciate if such docs were a little more open about who’s proposed what, done work etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc May 17
      Replying to @johnwilander @kkotowicz

      Are you thinking about directly identifying the authors of the proposals discussed in the doc? Or people who reviewed the doc before we sent it out? Or adding more context? Tell me what you're missing and I'll add it, there's nothing there that we can't be completely open about.

      9:33 AM - 17 May 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Eric Lawrence 🎻
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander May 17
          Replying to @arturjanc @kkotowicz

          WebKit has raised issues, proposed specs, and landed two open source implementations including ~50 test cases. If we’re going to collaborate, let’s give each other credit when we write docs. 🙂

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander May 17
          Replying to @johnwilander @arturjanc @kkotowicz

          To be clear, I don’t think there’s any bad intent here. I try to stick to benefit of the doubt. But IMHO, it’s important to give credit to make something like this stay collaborative.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc May 17
          Replying to @johnwilander @kkotowicz

          Totally, this is easy to rectify! I added the authors of the relevant specs/proposals (please let me know if I forgot someone from Apple, so far I have you and Ryosuke) and the people who contributed to the doc.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. End of conversation

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