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arturjanc's profile
Artur Janc
Artur Janc
Artur Janc
@arturjanc

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Artur Janc

@arturjanc

Making the web platform more secure one Twitter flamewar at a time.

Zurich, Switzerland
Joined February 2012

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    1. Ryan Sleevi‏ @sleevi_ 22 Nov 2017
      Replying to @estark37 @mikewest and

      Ryan Sleevi Retweeted John Wilander

      Yeah, got messed up by Twitter threading and thought @mikewest was replying to https://twitter.com/johnwilander/status/933384498682703873 … My question is whether or not knowing "13 parties" is actionable for users, and whether it's inconsistent with real world expectations and experiences.

      Ryan Sleevi added,

      John Wilander @johnwilander
      Replying to @estark37 @mikewest and 2 others
      Maybe just counting the third parties and displaying that might help? “37 orgs are listening in as you authenticate.” “12 orgs are listening in as you post this anonymous tip.”
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander 22 Nov 2017
      Replying to @sleevi_ @estark37 and

      It’s actionable in that users can ask questions and opt out. Why are 13 orgs listening in to my conversation with my physician? Why do the listen in when I submit an anonymous tip?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc 22 Nov 2017
      Replying to @johnwilander @sleevi_ and

      This mental model is the main problem with such a proposal -- loading resources from other domains is in no way equivalent to allowing owners of these domains to "listen in" on the user's interaction with your site.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander 22 Nov 2017
      Replying to @arturjanc @sleevi_ and

      I go to my healthcare provider’s page on diabetes, prostate cancer, or abortion. The page loads 3rd-parties. No sensitive leakage? 3rd-party script sends off form data in cross-origin pixel requests. No leakage?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc 22 Nov 2017
      Replying to @johnwilander @sleevi_ and

      First of all, you should define what you mean by "loads 3rd-parties". Images? Fonts? Frames? Stylesheets? Scripts? Scripts with SRI?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander 22 Nov 2017
      Replying to @arturjanc @sleevi_ and

      All of them. But real 3rd-parties, not just cross-origin with the same owner.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc 22 Nov 2017
      Replying to @johnwilander @sleevi_ and

      <img src="https://evil.com " referrerpolicy="no-referrer" /> What can http://evil.com  do?

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander 22 Nov 2017
      Replying to @arturjanc @sleevi_ and

      <img src=”evildotcom/storeForTrackingCookieThatThisGuyIsWorriedAboutProstateCancer/dummy.jpg” referrerpolicy=“no-referrer” />

      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
    9. Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc 22 Nov 2017
      Replying to @johnwilander @sleevi_ and

      Aren't you confusing "the page loads third-party resources" with "the developer has gone out of their way to send data about your interaction with their site to a third-party in a way that is completely independent of the platform"?

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander 22 Nov 2017
      Replying to @arturjanc @sleevi_ and

      I’m assuming a script dynamically creating these image resource loads. I’m just going after a simple, technical restriction for particularly sensitive pages. Nothing more.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc 22 Nov 2017
      Replying to @johnwilander @sleevi_ and

      If the site owner wrote the script why wouldn't they share the same data via a server-side request? It will be stealthier, and it's the same amount of code for them (one line). If someone else wrote the script and the site owner doesn't want to run it, why is it on their page?

      6:46 PM - 22 Nov 2017
      • 1 Like
      • Ryan Sleevi
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc 22 Nov 2017
          Replying to @arturjanc @johnwilander and

          I totally think your goal is laudable, but it's very difficult to see how this would work without the developer opting their sensitive site into this mode. And such a developer already has enough control over their site to make it not do what you're worried about.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc 22 Nov 2017
          Replying to @arturjanc @johnwilander and

          Conversely, a developer who wants to share your data with a third party can do so with a backend request and there is no way for your browser to know about this. Your U-A might tell you a nice story it cannot in any way verify.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander 22 Nov 2017
          Replying to @arturjanc @sleevi_ and

          This all comes down to liability, which is what it’s all about. I go to A’s website. A) They proxy stuff and leak my data. I go after A. B) They embed XYZ like everyone else and XYZ leak my data. I go after A. A says “We had no idea!” I have no play.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @johnwilander @sleevi_ and

          Two questions: 1) Would a site "have any idea" about sharing data if the same happened in a server-side module they installed? 2) How would you learn about this if it happens purely offline? Sadly, it seems difficult to have a constructive technical discussion about either one.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Artur Janc‏ @arturjanc 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @arturjanc @johnwilander and

          One other thing to note is that if offline sharing becomes more popular, users lose more control. Backend request may be over HTTP, data may be tied to your profile on the site, you can't reset your identifier, etc. I'd be wary of pushing developers in that direction.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. End of conversation

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