Yeah, for real. And I mean, even that being said, it's a pretty strong throughline in Christianity, to provide alternatives to family structures even though it tended to reinforce them in the larger society. I mean, what else is a monastery?
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Replying to @mssilverstein @MicahMTG
Christianity and Buddhism both underwent a lot of official suppression when they first popped up because of their open advocacy of young men dropping out of normal society (especially family life) in favor of the institution of a monastery
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The Romans initially thought Christianity would crash the birthrate and be the death of society by keeping men from marrying and having kids (and Christianity probably beat some of its competitors like Mithraism by being more "family-friendly")
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And when Buddhism first came to China from the West ("the West" meaning India) the government was wildly reactionary against it for similar reasons -- it seemed to undermine fundamental Confucian values Han Yu's Remonstrance of the Buddha's Bone is a fun read
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Replying to @RiffChick @mssilverstein and
I mean it's a hot take but it's actually kind of literally true Confucius believed -- and Mencius elaborated on -- this idea that if you truly cultivate a virtuous understanding of your place in the world, society just works, automatically Everyone knows their job and does it
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Replying to @arthur_affect @RiffChick and
This phrase we talk about so much in modern SJW liberalism, "negotiating consent", was something Confucius didn't like In his taxonomy of different professions merchants who make their living "haggling over prices" were close to the lowest of the low
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Replying to @arthur_affect @RiffChick and
some interesting background here, arguing that local villages were effectively running on gift economies, and that traveling merchants charging market prices were in some sense "cheating" by those standardshttps://acoup.blog/2020/08/21/collections-bread-how-did-they-make-it-part-iv-markets-and-non-farmers/ …
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Replying to @perdricof @arthur_affect and
i.e. that the village was running on a sort of invisible credit. i have a good harvest this year and yours sucks, i don't take advantage of it--in fact, i give much of it away through feasts, dowries, blah blah blah--because who knows what the next harvest brings
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Replying to @perdricof @arthur_affect and
Yeah - but I mean, at the same time, I'm sympathetic to the ways in which those communities can feel restrictive and oppressive, and capitalism being oddly liberationary.
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I always want to yell about this The "paradox" that modern capitalism is liberatory compared to older forms of social organization isn't a paradox at all It's not an anti-leftist thing to say It COMES FROM MARX It's CENTRAL to Marx's whole "dialectical materialism" shtick
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