well, angelus has a vampire form where his forehead is bulgy and so forth i've never really been interested in parsing "bob" and "vampire bob" as separate entities- to me, it's all just bob and angel's "that was angelus!" nonsense is just special pleading
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Replying to @jmatonak @perdricof
All vampires in Buffy have the forehead thing, it's an... interesting stylistic choice that has been picked up by no one and seems to come from nowhere. That's not the same as like the demon that was in the evil kid, that took physical form when exorcised
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Replying to @BootlegGirl @perdricof
yes, i agree, whatever demon component a vampire has doesn't (and probably can't) exist outside of/without the vampire host
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Replying to @jmatonak @BootlegGirl
i still agree with ellie that "demons! souls!" are just a convenient metaphysical excuse to avoid thinking about this other question: what would the average american do if you gave them vampiric superpowers and a hunger for blood
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Replying to @perdricof @jmatonak
Food for thought (besides "BIT handled this better, so much better): Illyria/Fred. What happened there was basically like becoming a vampire except with a promise the soul was gone. And then the demon immediately became more human.
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Illyria was supposedly more sinister than any vampire demon, even Angelus. So how come they changed to be like Fred and vampire demons don't? My theory is, Illyria is one of the first real cases of a demon inhabiting a person we've seen. Maybe Angelus specifically is too
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My impression is that the "true form" of the demons that became vampires is the Turok-Han, the big scary "proto-vampires" who became the First Evil's army in the final season of Buffy
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Replying to @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl and
Which are extremely physically powerful compared to vampires but also kind of dumb and driven by mindless aggression What we call "vampirism" was the Turok-Han becoming mystically bound to the human species, only able to exist by overlapping with a human and sharing their body
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Replying to @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl and
There's that line where Illyria says she doesn't think of vampires as true demons but "parasites, half-human hybrids" It's not a *completely* unique idea - like the thing where Glory can't physically exist on her own, only as a form Ben shapeshifts into, which is her weakness
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that wasn't my read on glory she can physically exist on her own, it's just that she lost a war in hell and got imprisoned inside of ben. the whole season is about preventing her from breaking out
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Well, yeah, it's a condition that was imposed on her and not intrinsic to her nature, but the same is true of the Turok-Han The evolution of Turok-Han into human vampires was something done to ensure their continued existence as humans won the war against demonkind
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