I wasn't saying Hunter said it, I was saying *WoD* said it, with the whole "it's vampires, not werewolves, the murderhobos or the Literal Demons, who are the ultimate evil"
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Replying to @loudpenitent @DanMajdali
Vampires aren't really the ultimate evil though Maybe the Antediluvians kind of are but enh, they're the equivalent of Onceborn and just like in Exalted the worst things in the world are Neverborn
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Replying to @arthur_affect @DanMajdali
"If you were a good person you would commit suicide" and "the annihilation of every single member of this group would be an unquestioned moral good for the entire world" is not a statement that's made about other supernaturals, but it absolutely was about Vampires.
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Anyways I'm just saying my subjective reactions to this, I'm not trying to Thermian Argument this shit. I'm saying that WoD was part of a really rather gross set of tropes and the end result was actually quite reactionary, imo, intentionally or otherwise.
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Especially given that unlike some vampire settings where being turned is a voluntary or semi-voluntary thing, WoD vampires fall into the "infectious viral" model, so your vampires are quite likely people who just got unlucky and are now Tainted Subhumans Who Must All Die.
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Which given the cultural model for the vampires in question, as the Urban Queer Club/Non-Vanilla Scene, and in particular contrasted with Hunters frequently being religious zealots... uh, it's basically saying "they were drawn into the Queer Lifestyle and must die." Gross af.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @arthur_affect
Well, yeah, as Arthur pointed out, they made Hunters pretty morally ambiguous too. Many of them are self righteous and akin to fascists as you've pointed out. It doesn't promote a fascist ideology, it explores it. Not always well but it can be used well in storytelling.
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Replying to @DanMajdali @arthur_affect
Problem is, as noted, they're closer to "authorially correct" in the setting; they (and werewolves) are arguably the "misguided good guys" to the vampires' "literal taint on the world"
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Replying to @loudpenitent @DanMajdali
Eeeeenh Even if this is true, it is simply incorrect that Kindred as a whole are queer and punk and Werewolves and Hunters are conservative fascists Ventrue are a whole-ass Clan whose whole thing is being Republican trust fund preppies
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Werewolves are hippies (Children of Gaia) and punks (Bone Gnawers) themselves And they're really really not "good guys" even in their own gameline - they've got it hanging over their heads that they *genocided all the other species of shapeshifters*
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As far as Hunters go, they come from real life militant orgs but that includes leftist ones as much as right-wing ones The kind of militant Hunter a typical fan would be most likely to actually play would be an antifa archetype - Memphis68 is a former Black Panther
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Anyway it's not even accurate to say these are the games that pushed hardest the idea that you're a "good guy" That was Mage
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That's why I'm actually much more enthusiastic about using Hunter to play a witch hunter than a vampire hunter
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