White Wolf even tried to do a different vampire game themselves only for their fans to protest and for them to eventually go back to the original onehttps://twitter.com/FreyjaErlings/status/1303733476303175686 …
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In HtR this requires contact with an actual Demon from Demon: the Fallen, but you can imagine the concept playing out differently
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(In Hunter you can only reach full power by becoming an Extremist and losing your humanity The other two Extremist paths -- Angelic and Independent, giving yourself to the Messengers or to an abstraction of your Hunter Code -- are "good guy" paths but don't have to be)
End of conversation
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