We have a bunch of different drives, and several of those drives require harming other people in some way to be satisfied, and thus the existence of those drives leads to our associating other people's pain with our pleasure and what we call "sadism"
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Obviously the word "sadism" from the Marquis de Sade goes a little bit further and takes it into the realm of "perversion" or fetish, of supposedly liking people suffering "for its own sake" But I don't think it's that easy to detach one from the other
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Like that's her whole point, this goes beyond abstract moral approval of wrongdoers being punished, people *actively seek it out*, they make whole subreddits for it, it's one of their hobbies
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There's a difference between believing that an execution is morally necessary and demanding to be in the audience for it Not just saying it's okay if racists get punched but making a YouTube channel collecting clips of racists getting punched from across the country
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And I mean I don't think she's saying that's bad, I think she's just saying our norms are in conflict Liberal modern society pretends that we all hate violence and harm and having to punish wrongdoers is a grim necessity we only do out of duty
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But of course we're lying, humans are weak If we actually didn't want to punish people, we just wouldn't punish them When we do punish people it's because we like it, it makes us feel good, it's baked into the brain's reward centers And I think she's just saying to own that
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I'm all here for not punishing people. People either do bad things because they're bad people or because they're forced into it. If they're bad people then maybe therapy and access to medications could help and, if not, then maybe they need to be kept safely away from others.
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Replying to @phyphor @arthur_affect and
But none of that is punishment. And why would you punish someone for something outside their control? If they're forced into it then we need to improve whatever systemic issue caused that, and help the person escape that pressure. Again, what does punishment achieve?
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That's what Contra sort of gets into with this video Our basic psychological drives -- which is what our intellectual moral beliefs are ultimately based on -- are evolved, not designed
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Replying to @arthur_affect @phyphor and
The "strategy" we're programmed to take with enemies/threats is "rational" in the grand scheme of things, because it evolved out of what helped us survive against said threats But it wasn't set up by some moral authority presuming centralized power
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Our morality didn't come from a situation where there even was an overarching "we" or "us", some kind of authority who decides what's ultimately best for everyone That's something that evolved out of our society much more recently, and is arguably still mostly only an ideal
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Replying to @arthur_affect @phyphor and
When there's no universal "we" and "we" is just me and my small group of friends against a hostile universe, retribution makes *perfect* sense It's the basic way you keep threats at bay, it's game theory You teach people not to mess with you by making them pay if they do
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Replying to @arthur_affect @phyphor and
And this response is baked in, it's visceral, it forms the basis of much of "human nature" across different cultures When someone fucks with you you have an immediate response that they need to be punished, based on a deep fear response that if you don't, they'll do it again
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