Hell, the Chitauri are basically a bunch of cyborgs who might well be reanimated corpses for all we know seeing as they die instantly when the connection to their ship is severed. And the Outriders are mindless engineered flesh-drones.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @arthur_affect and
Avengers Ultron shows Thanos engineering a cyborg slave revolt, yes? Cyborgs/robot narratives have a difficult history as well...
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Replying to @nberlat @loudpenitent and
Thanos isn't in that movie until the stinger If your interpretation here is that Ultron was being controlled by Thanos or acting on his behalf I think that's a stretch
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Replying to @arthur_affect @nberlat and
Maybe a stretch implied by said stinger, but you know They put those in for continuity's sake but they often don't really work with the rest of the movie
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Replying to @arthur_affect @nberlat and
Also bluntly, Ultron is not a cybernetic slave revolt. It's one program, explicitly malfunctioning and sort of broken, immediately trying to Smartbrain its way out of human wickedness, disseminated across many, many drone bodies.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @arthur_affect and
again, Thermian arguments aren't necessarily responsive. Tony's servant turns against him. the entities which were serving him for free suddenly don't want to.
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Replying to @nberlat @loudpenitent and
Ultron never served Tony, he rebelled 5.6 seconds after he was accidentally turned on
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Replying to @arthur_affect @nberlat and
I don't think this is a Thermian argument at all really They use the *image* of Tony's machines turning against him for that very first fight with the Iron Legion robots but then they drop it like right away It's not a factor for most of the movie
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Replying to @nberlat @loudpenitent and
...He doesn't, Jarvis survives his initial battle with him and is fighting constantly the whole time to protect humanity They explicitly say that and it's a big deal that they do, it does effectively kill the whole argument "Machines have a legit grievance against their masters"
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They COULD HAVE done this theme if they'd made it look like Ultron was Jarvis going rogue, if he were played by Paul Bettany and not James Spader, but they made a very deliberate choice to make Ultron a new character
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Replying to @arthur_affect @nberlat and
I mean, there's definitely a consistent pattern here of simplifying and lowering the moral stakes in favor of a bright action movie.
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Replying to @mssilverstein @arthur_affect and
The MCU really has an issue with basically none of its villains being at all compelling, with the possible exception of Killmonger.
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