Undertale IS MORALLY GRAY The question of "Should I kill Asgore in self defense or not, does it matter he's committed murder in the past or not" IS NOT A CLEARLY ANSWERABLE QUESTION It's NOT given a clear answer in-universe
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If Toby Fox wanted to actually make the incredibly stupid point people think he was trying to make - "Killing is never the answer, there is always another way" - he wouldn't have programmed the game the way he did
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The author of this piece says the Neutral ending is a bad ending and you're never supposed to get it, that ever killing anyone at all is a bad ending and a fail YOU CANNOT GET TO THE GOLDEN ENDING ON THE FIRST PLAYTHROUGH YOU *MUST* GET THE NEUTRAL ENDING AT LEAST ONCE FIRST
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You cannot escape the Underground without killing Asgore, because he is absolutely committed to killing you first He breaks the Mercy button in the boss fight, it's a whole thing The only way to spare his life is to cheat by reloading the game and starting over
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It's at least a little bit part of the theme of the game that the Golden Ending is fake, it requires you to go to all this effort to engineer it because you have the godlike power to save and reload
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The idea that this is seriously some kind of moral guide to life is something Toby Fox even seems like he wants to take the piss out of, it's referenced when you try to spare the bad guy in Deltarune (it may be the whole reason he's making Deltarune)
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Replying to @arthur_affect
Would you say that forgiving Asgore is a failure of the game (i.e. the implications were brushed aside), or simply just a sign that life is messy and that the game suggests restorative justice is better than capital punishment?
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Replying to @Gerkuman
I would say it's a little of both, like it only works because the game plays up SO MUCH how much Asgore hates himself and is filled with grief and despair Which, of course, if it were a more realistic setting would get brushed aside as "more man-pain" (justifiably)
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Gerkuman
And Asgore is no longer the king of anything once the monsters go aboveground, and Toriel doesn't take him back, etc, etc He knew what he was doing in the sense that the narrative doesn't *feel* like he got away scot-free (even though really he did)
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Gerkuman
It superficially engages with the idea that Asgore is a flawed person who's done bad things and needs to reckon with that, without actually really reckoning with *how bad* they were Because it's a cartoony goofy game and that's the kind of setting it is
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And, you know, that's fine I'm not pissed at the game itself, really, for being what it is I'm just kind of tired of seeing it put on this pedestal
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Replying to @arthur_affect
I get that. I feel it's a bit of column a and b too. And I really like the game, but deifying any game is silly. Any work of art is by nature, flawed in some way, because humans are not perfect either. We pour our own biases into it and often short-sightedly misjudge implications
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Replying to @Gerkuman
Toby Fox absolutely did not expect this game to become the UwU Bible it ended up being and it's unfair to blame him for the way the fandom treats it as such
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