And this is an interesting conversation, but it's also implicitly a metaconversation. It's breaking the laws of the fictional reality - the players have never before been explicitly acknowledged as forces - for the sake of emotional catharsis and hope.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @arthur_affect and
Which is a great beat! N:A does it beautifully! But it has nothing to do with black and white morality or this weird moral sense the author is talking about. Taro, May his name be feared, even said he didn't feel this like...erased all the blood on the characters' hands.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @arthur_affect and
He permits 9S and 2B a happy ending because they have suffered enough, and the players have the power to give them what they wish for - but he also says all that anguish was a natural result out what they *did* to each other and others.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @arthur_affect and
Like this is very much a relationship to fiction you see in two places. Fan works and games, in one case due to parasocial investment and in one agency. But games give you an absurd amount of agency, compared to real life. It's certainly not a more comprehensive morality.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @arthur_affect and
I think the author is mistaking the sense of *power* and *joy* they receive from works like Undertale where there is an answer that leads to vicarious happiness with a sense of moral clarity. Moral heroism often *doesn't* feel good in the moment, even if it does in the end.
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Yeah I've been talking a lot about Orwell the past few days and he wrote an essay about the "tragic sense of life" that I think a lot about (it's ostensibly his deep dive into why Tolstoy hated Shakespeare so much and particularly King Lear)
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
It sounds silly to accuse smart educated adult people of this But it is very common in all of us, I think, to have that kneejerk response that "Hey if you the author made this happen, that means you *wanted* it to happen You made these people suffer, and that makes you evil"
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
This is literally Tolstoy and Shakespeare Tolstoy, for whatever reason, specifically fixated on how much he hated King Lear And he thought the play made Shakespeare a *bad person*, that only someone with a "degraded moral sense" would set it up so Cordelia dies at the end
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
And, like, it's a fair cop Tragedy isn't always good art, and a tragedy is always trying to say something about what the author sees as the rules of the world we live in, and you're allowed to hate that statement
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
But if you just flat-out reject the tragic sense of life completely, you're in denial about something You're running away from truth, you're refusing to confront what is the fundamental basis, the definition, of *having a moral sense at all* to begin with
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Like, look, the whole definition of being a good person means being good even if it doesn't actually work out in the end If you need to know whether it will all work out before you do anything good, you're not actually a good person You're a fake good person
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
We all fucking know that, and yet moral guardians in every era seem to demand that the world of fiction wipe away this basic truth so that the imaginary world it presents us instead can be "inspiring" and "hopeful"
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
And it's not like there's no place for that But if you live in that escapist fantasy all the time, you become thoughtless and stupid, and when you become thoughtless and stupid, you become an asshole At least you should consider that, if you think fiction affects culture
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