That's not what I'm talking about though, I'm talking about treating the game as a different "phase" or whatever in combat versus not combat
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Replying to @BootlegGirl @loudpenitent and
I mean almost no games had destructible environments etc. prior to Valve developing the engine for Half-Life 2 as basically a tech demo and then everyone jumping on it in the mid-00s
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Replying to @BootlegGirl @MudDude4 and
And I'm saying that unless your spells have noncombat uses they're still pure executions within a combat minigame rather than an open ended thing you can interact with. Phase shifts are the default model of ALL RPGs.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @BootlegGirl and
what Ellie's talking about is more or less THE fundamental difference between WRPGs and JRPGs, though - it's not that in western RPGs you can actually do interesting things out of combat with your abilities but there's... the illusion that you can? it's a stylistic difference
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Replying to @segfaultvicta @loudpenitent and
rather than an actually terribly important mechanical difference - I'm not contending that the gameplay experience of combat in a WRPG /isn't/ just as siloed as it is in a JRPG, but it FEELS a lot different
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Replying to @segfaultvicta @loudpenitent and
and the concept of the Swirly Battle Transition does a lot of work in terms of how stylised and abstract your combat minigame /feels/, how different "what you can do in combat" feels from "what you can do all the rest of the time"
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Replying to @segfaultvicta @loudpenitent and
Chrono Trigger was considered groundbreaking on the JRPG side because they did away with the Swirly Battle Transition I mean it's mechanically the same thing - including having two identical copies of the monster leap out from the original's body - but staying on the same screen
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Replying to @arthur_affect @segfaultvicta and
Which does matter a lot for immersion, at least to me It's hard to keep on teleporting to "battle space" and not totally break the mimesis and feel like you're watching a movie and then playing an unrelated board game in between scenes
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Replying to @arthur_affect @segfaultvicta and
Interestingly and ironically the more integrated combat is with the rest of the game the less it feels like an RPG - unfortunately, the whole "RPG" concept is bound to ideas like "XP/HP/MP", "combat rounds", etc in our heads - and the more it feels like an "action" game
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Replying to @arthur_affect @segfaultvicta and
The Elder Scrolls games try to be as integrated as possible and therefore in a lot of people's eyes start to leave the RPG world behind
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Before his downfall Chris Avellone gave an interview I thought was interesting where he said despite being known as the wall-of-text dialogue-tree guy and despite building his career comeback on nostalgia for the good old days of the Infinity Engine he was kind of sick of it
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Replying to @arthur_affect @segfaultvicta and
Which may explain why Torment: Tides of Numenera wasn't all that good Saying that the classic RPG separation between "This is the role playing part, this is the game part" was annoying and jarring, and wanting to look at AAA FPSes as where storytelling was really innovating
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Replying to @arthur_affect @segfaultvicta and
The game should ideally just be one thing and not have big jarring seams to try to fit different things together If the game is about shooting people, then fine, shoot people the whole time Find a way to tell the story through the device of shooting people
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