The idea that *both* Joel and the Fireflies needed to die (and, I guess, Ellie as well) is... a take
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Replying to @arthur_affect
I'm talking from Ellie's perspective here (who doesn't really get a say in Joel's death iirc?)
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Replying to @Nymphomachy
Oh if you're just saying you're pro-Ellie that's not that hot a take One reason TLoU 2 is so upsetting to people is that it forces you to actually play as Abby yourself, which means *no matter what* the game must end with you "failing"
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Nymphomachy
Like it's kind of a slap in the face to simple identification The whole idea of playing as Abby is it shoves the arbitrariness of "playing as" somebody in your face, it makes it super clear you're just an actor in the show
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Nymphomachy
There's no way for you the player to decide that you "really are" Ellie and are on Ellie's side and therefore the moment Abby becomes a character under your control a mysterious force makes her jump off a cliff
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Nymphomachy
I mean you can tho, you can just die as Abby and leave the game off
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Replying to @Cybren @Nymphomachy
Creating a time paradox, since this happens several days before the previous scene where Ellie fights her
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Cybren
Oof. Don't get me started on Kojima and how precious that guy gets about Time Paradoces
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Replying to @Nymphomachy @Cybren
The funny thing is the earliest moment at which the game makes it possible for you controlling Abby to cause a timeline where she dies is after Joel is already dead anyway so that doesn't change anything
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Not true! You can totally get killed before you reach Joel on your Murder Quest
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Oh right if you die too early Joel doesn't save you I guess So that's a happy ending sort of
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But yeah Lev and Yara exist entirely to give Abby a perception of moral parity to Ellie.
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It would be fun to create a Twitter account or a blog or something called "The Noble Game Over" that explores how often the only choice a player has in a game is to lose it, and how this may result in a preferable if esoteric result than winning it
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End of conversation
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