Hmm, but would Dworkin and Raymond scan as being part of the same feminism?
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Replying to @arthur_affect
ah, I thought Dworkin went way harder than Raymond for some reason
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Replying to @Nymphomachy
A few years before The Transsexual Empire Dworkin had actually said she considered trans women to be women, at least provisionally (they, like cis women, were in a "state of primary emergency" under patriarchy)
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Nymphomachy
To further clarify, Dworkin always went harder than Raymond on non-trans issues. Raymond never believed that consensual het sex was impossible, for Dworkin that was a key thing. But conversely the only completely trans exclusive thing Dworkin did was that blurb.
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Replying to @BootlegGirl @Nymphomachy
Yeah but I get uncomfortable when people use that one Dworkin quote as this slam dunk "See the REAL radfem tradition is trans inclusive" prooftext I consider it wildly unlikely that that's more reflective of her overall views than the latter Raymond blurb
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Keep in mind one of Dworkin's closest friends and collaborators across her career was Cathy McKinnon
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Anyway I know this is stepping out of my lane to a wild degree but people actually softpedal how fucked up a lot of OG radfems were, a lot of them were *worse* than TERFs today to a wild degree
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The term "sex-negative feminism" is not an exaggeration, the so called "sex wars" included big names saying that sexual desire was a fundamentally masculine construct and real, authentic lesbianism was defined by its lack
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It was a fairly common take in those circles to talk about cis gay men the exact same way they now talk about trans women, that for a man to have sex with men was an act of misogyny and appropriation
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People who said that like Ti-Grace Atkinson are still around and have never recanted or apologized
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I mean shit it’s still functionally the model I grew up with by osmosis, only also with a side of “a man not being sexually available to me is also misogyny”, it… did not go very far
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End of conversation
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