Rejecting consequentialism is somewhat more complicated than just accepting the consequences you can easily see and ignoring the ones that you can't
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
Joel betrayed people too, if we're going by pure code of honor deontology He absolutely broke faith with the Fireflies and went against his word to them
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
the thing about code of honor deontologies is that they occasionally (frequently) have the result that both parties to a conflict are acting rightly!!! they're not about the purity of soul or motive, they're about what acts license what responses
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Replying to @perdricof @loudpenitent and
Yes, the fact that the ancient Greeks saw virtue in this way is the whole idea behind the Greek tragedy, that sometimes horrific results are inevitable from all sides behaving honorably
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Replying to @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl and
Right, yeah - I mean, that's what makes anything complex and interesting, where the choices and breaking points are worth spending time on. I don't need to worry about if Skeletor had a point.
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Replying to @mssilverstein @arthur_affect and
But like, the high-philosophy moralizing seems largely beyond the point sometimes, here. What would you counsel Abby/Ellie if you were a friend?
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Replying to @mssilverstein @BootlegGirl and
If I were anyone in the story other than Joel or Ellie I would absolutely kill Joel and let them dissect Ellie and I think the whole honorable paladin "You never murder innocents!" thing is a real failure of imagination
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Replying to @arthur_affect @mssilverstein and
If my partner and I were trapped in a safehouse, both bitten, slowly feeling ourselves succumbing to infection, and I were told that the reason this was happening to us was that five years ago some guy adopted some girl as his daughter I would not give even the tiniest shit
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Replying to @arthur_affect @mssilverstein and
if i were trapped in a safehouse bitten slowly waiting to turn and was told that the reason was that five years ago a violent man found love for his adoptive daughter i would simply shed a single tear as i contemplated the nobility of the human spirit it would be very poignant
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Replying to @perdricof @arthur_affect and
All I'm going to say is it's some real bullshit how people get with relation to the ending of the prior game and their obsession with a Miracle Cure when to my mind the whole textual point is that the clinging to the vaccine is symbolically in keeping with Joel's past-fixation.
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It's a work of fiction, and it's one where there isn't much point to it if the impossible moral dilemma isn't real and there are actual obvious good guys and bad guys
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Replying to @arthur_affect @perdricof and
I don't see it *as* a moral dilemma, I see it as a *symbolic* statement about inability to let go of grief and willingness to make any number of people suffer as long as one can cling to the dream of a life lost.
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