There's no getting around the fact that Abby betrayed, tortured and murdered someone who saved her life.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @BootlegGirl and
You wanted her to immediately and completely forgive the person that murdered her dad just because he pulled her away from some zombies one time?
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Replying to @SpaceCowboy207 @BootlegGirl and
Considering she would have otherwise absolutely 100% died, yeah, betrayal is a Bad Deed. Doesn't mean it's not understandable, just that it's contemptible nonetheless.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @BootlegGirl and
Dude, you cannot genuinely tell me that Abby “betrayed” Joel. They knew each other for like 10 minutes. And yes, her murder of Joel was obviously bad, just like Joel’s murder of her dad was bad. That’s like the whole point.
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Replying to @SpaceCowboy207 @BootlegGirl and
"Knowing that I am only alive because this man saved my life for no gain of his own and explicitly offered me and my friends shelter, I then led him to his torture and death." That is WAY THE FUCK WORSE than "you killed my dad while rescuing a girl whom he was about to murder"
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Replying to @loudpenitent @BootlegGirl and
Joel also prevented the creation of a cure, presumably killing thousands upon thousands of people. Trying to weigh morality to make judgements on people is exactly what this game is arguing against. Because if you do that, Ellie and Tommy are WAY THE FUCK WORSE than Abby.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @SpaceCowboy207 and
Rejecting consequentialism is somewhat more complicated than just accepting the consequences you can easily see and ignoring the ones that you can't
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
Joel betrayed people too, if we're going by pure code of honor deontology He absolutely broke faith with the Fireflies and went against his word to them
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
the thing about code of honor deontologies is that they occasionally (frequently) have the result that both parties to a conflict are acting rightly!!! they're not about the purity of soul or motive, they're about what acts license what responses
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Yes, the fact that the ancient Greeks saw virtue in this way is the whole idea behind the Greek tragedy, that sometimes horrific results are inevitable from all sides behaving honorably
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Replying to @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl and
Right, yeah - I mean, that's what makes anything complex and interesting, where the choices and breaking points are worth spending time on. I don't need to worry about if Skeletor had a point.
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Replying to @mssilverstein @arthur_affect and
But like, the high-philosophy moralizing seems largely beyond the point sometimes, here. What would you counsel Abby/Ellie if you were a friend?
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