It all comes down to the original trolley problem and whether you yourself think the possibility of a vaccine makes Jerry a hero or a murderer (And if the utilitarian calculus does mean his actions are justified then how smug or humble he is about it doesn't actually matter)
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Mishyana and
I mean at that point we hit the obvious and extremely reasonable criticisms in light of "real" ethics. Such as: "Why the fuck are you in such a hurry instead of slowly studying ethically over a period of years?" or "so how are you gonna manufacture & distribute this?"
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Replying to @loudpenitent @arthur_affect and
Like the way Jerry talks about it to Marlene honestly just further reinforces my personal belief that the vaccine is just an obsessive idol, a Way To Make It All Worth It. He explicitly says "if we make the vaccine all our losses, sacrifices and misdeeds will be worth it."
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Replying to @loudpenitent @Mishyana and
No, I get it If you genuinely seriously think that you must commit an atrocity for the greater good then you've got to rip that bandaid off NOW or else your resolve will falter You have to commit at the moment you decide or else you've already really made the other choice
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
"If it were done 'tis done, then 'twere well 'tis done quickly", as Macbeth said Jerry isn't going to wait for three years while running tests on Ellie and also getting to know her personality and hopes and dreams He isn't even going to wait for her to wake up
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
*"If it were done WHEN 'tis done, then 'twere well 'tis done quickly" I.e. either do it or don't, doing it won't get any less bad if you spend all day feeling bad about doing it and then do it anyway
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Mishyana and
I mean, you quote that, but it's also transparently what allows Macbeth to do horrible things in the play instead of thinking it through and maybe not destroying his life and the lives of all around him :P
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Replying to @loudpenitent @Mishyana and
If you're going to decide not to do it then you have to say that and commit to it too No one could psychologically bear having to live with this girl as a member of their survivor family knowing someday you might have to broach the issue of dissecting her brain
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
That's the whole subtext of Jerry's argument with Marlene, he's goading her to just come out and say "No, it's not worth it, we don't need a vaccine that badly" and he knows she won't say it
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
Like this is also why Joel's set of decisions makes moral sense He's absolutely convinced killing Ellie is fundamentally unacceptable Any hesitation or delay in acting on this conviction is therefore also unacceptable
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Telling Ellie about it and giving her the opportunity to decide for herself is similarly unacceptable Her giving her consent wouldn't make it okay, it would just be a self-loathing and depressed teenager being browbeaten into believing she has no value
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
And once he's decided it's unacceptable and he's going to put a stop to it, what benefit does telling her about it achieve except causing her more pain
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
And even though his tower of lies was arguably always going to collapse, he did have a point there It is pretty clear that the survivor's guilt of knowing what happens almost breaks her and is what turns her into a death-seeking relentless killing machine
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