I don’t think this is what the story was arguing at all. I think it was saying Abby was *just as* justified in her vengeance as Ellie was hers. I don’t think it was really giving a moral pass to either ‘side’. But that doesn’t change the final calculations or tangential damage.
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Replying to @Mishyana @loudpenitent and
It all comes down to the original trolley problem and whether you yourself think the possibility of a vaccine makes Jerry a hero or a murderer (And if the utilitarian calculus does mean his actions are justified then how smug or humble he is about it doesn't actually matter)
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Mishyana and
I mean at that point we hit the obvious and extremely reasonable criticisms in light of "real" ethics. Such as: "Why the fuck are you in such a hurry instead of slowly studying ethically over a period of years?" or "so how are you gonna manufacture & distribute this?"
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Replying to @loudpenitent @arthur_affect and
Like the way Jerry talks about it to Marlene honestly just further reinforces my personal belief that the vaccine is just an obsessive idol, a Way To Make It All Worth It. He explicitly says "if we make the vaccine all our losses, sacrifices and misdeeds will be worth it."
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Replying to @loudpenitent @Mishyana and
No, I get it If you genuinely seriously think that you must commit an atrocity for the greater good then you've got to rip that bandaid off NOW or else your resolve will falter You have to commit at the moment you decide or else you've already really made the other choice
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
"If it were done 'tis done, then 'twere well 'tis done quickly", as Macbeth said Jerry isn't going to wait for three years while running tests on Ellie and also getting to know her personality and hopes and dreams He isn't even going to wait for her to wake up
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Mishyana and
But, and this is important, *that's not how fucking medical ethics works*.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @Mishyana and
Well yeah and medical ethics in our world assumes a functioning society where the existing balance of life and death in the status quo is considered acceptable
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Replying to @arthur_affect @Mishyana and
I could say something extremely incendiary here, but I won't. So instead I'm just going to say "yeah, destroying your sole existing sample on the chance of a vaccine is also a really bad idea."
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Replying to @loudpenitent @Mishyana and
At some point you're just fighting against the authors for writing the setting to be what it is though Like you might as well argue that they shouldn't need a cure in the first place because the mutant Cordyceps shouldn't exist because it doesn't make sense
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Culturing whatever makes Ellie immune without killing her is said by Jerry to be impossible, if not completely impossible then at least impossible with the tools and knowledge he has, and while he's not infallible he really is the only person who would know
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Replying to @arthur_affect @loudpenitent and
Agreed. Characters can only make moral calculations based on the information they actually have, not conclusions players might come to based on real world context. And as far as both Joel and Jerry know, operating on Ellie immediately is the only/best chance for a vaccine.
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