So now we're talking about grace, huh?
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Replying to @mssilverstein @BootlegGirl
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment." One can acknowledge that Ellie is giving Abby a *gift* of unearned mercy, and still also say mercy is preferable.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @BootlegGirl
Yeah - I mean, 'what Abby deserves' vs. "what Ellie should do" are not necessarily congruent.
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Replying to @mssilverstein @BootlegGirl
Exactly! Abby still *DESERVES*, at Ellie's hands, exactly the same cruel violence she gleefully dealt out to others. Ellie doesn't do so, and that is a laudable and praiseworthy act, but that doesn't change that Abby continuing to breathe is an unearned gift.
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Like that's how cycles of revenge *work* - they are fueled by what someone "deserves" at the hands of the wronged party. And that's what I meant when I said I can understand why people are irritated - Abby comes out of things way better despite having started the whole cycle.
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Replying to @loudpenitent @mssilverstein
Which is why I compare the game to Unforgiven "Deserve's got nothing to do with it"
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I guess this just underscores how controversial the ending of the first game is because the whole "Who started it?" question is central to where your sympathies lie in TLoU2
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Replying to @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl and
And that question can't be answered without answering all the other questions raised by TLoU 1 If dissecting Ellie is a justifiable and necessary act then the Fireflies were, in fact, innocent and Joel's massacre is an act of murder He started it
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Replying to @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl and
If it's unjustifiable no matter what in your view, then yes, everyone at the hospital is a murderer or an accessory, Joel was heroically trying to save his daughter, and Abby is the one who fires the first shot in the exchange by killing an innocent man for no good reason
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Replying to @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl and
These two viewpoints are, I think, irreconcilable and they're very very strongly skewed by people's growing dislike of trolley problem scenarios in games like this and willingness to just go ahead and side with the characters who have names and top billing in the cast
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I feel like if we're gonna get Geneva Conventions involved here we have to come back to the idea that those Conventions were for sovereign nations seen as equals who were all the rightful government of their country It doesn't apply to criminals
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Replying to @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl and
It's like, if some rando kidnaps your daughter and threatens to cut her up for some insane reason, the kidnapper and his friends aren't a country, they don't get Geneva Convention protections, you can fuck them up any way you want in order to save her
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I think the Fireflies have a better case for being a de facto sovereign nation than Joel But then, nobody at this point has actually signed the Geneva Conventions I guess
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