Like all the apologetics you can do to dance around what the Borgias were like can't erase the plain fact that the papacy of Alexander VI was *cartoonishly* corrupt Like there's just *no way* everyone was gonna sit back and let the concept of indulgences slide after that point
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Replying to @arthur_affect @mssilverstein and
Indulgences are still a thing. You can get them for walking through special Holy Doors. There was one at the National Basilica in DC in 2017. Trent was one of many Church councils during the late medieval period that put enforcement of restrictions front and centre.
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Replying to @ai_valentin @arthur_affect and
Hell, incandescent ridiculous out of touch hot take: indulgences, bluntly, *make sense* doctrinally and ideologically; it's a public donation to support a community center (the church) and its charitable works, and in exchange for Doing That Good Thing, it outweighs a sinful act
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Replying to @loudpenitent @ai_valentin and
like there's all sorts of totally valid criticisms of indulgences as a structure, but framing them as the ultimate monstrous abuse of religious faith by the wicked Catholic Church is more about Protestant mythmaking imo than it is about a genuinely unsound philosophical argument
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Replying to @loudpenitent @arthur_affect and
Bingo. Indulgences weren't the issue. It was the way they were spun that touched off lay anger, but mostly amongst the middling sort and the lower rungs of the aristocracy that wanted power, and they got it by using Luther as a functional anti-pope as happened in the 14th c.
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Replying to @ai_valentin @arthur_affect and
(Notably, Lutherans themselves have criticized Luther for his antisemitism and archconservativism, but the broader Luther-descended Protestant strain is often extremely reluctant to talk about what he did AFTER his initial stand.)
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Replying to @SoulOBrass @loudpenitent and
I do not meet many Protestants who talk about Luther much at all, really.
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Replying to @mssilverstein @SoulOBrass and
I wonder what Martin Luther King, Sr. (born Michael King, who changed both his and his already-born son's name at once when he had a religious awakening) would've said if you asked him
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Replying to @arthur_affect @mssilverstein and
(MLK Sr. was quite a bit more conservative on every axis than his son and a lot of modern-day conservatives who try to argue the "MLK was a Republican" thing are just projecting his father's beliefs onto him, possibly because MLK Jr. avoided directly antagonizing his father)
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I had a coworker named Mike King who commented once that, technically, he had the same name as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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