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arthur_affect's profile
Arthur Chu
Arthur Chu
Arthur Chu
Verified account
@arthur_affect

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Arthur ChuVerified account

@arthur_affect

Mad genius, comedian, actor, and freelance voiceover artist broadcasting from the distant shores of Lake Erie (he/him)

Broadview Heights, Ohio
arthur-chu.com
Joined August 2009

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    1. Dr. Ellie Lockhart. Republic serial villain.‏ @BootlegGirl 27 Jan 2020

      Trolley problems are exceedingly uncommon in the wild. If someone is going out of their way to use them to justify something, and everyone on the track you pull the lever to hit happens to be a minority, that person is just being a bigot & using "pragmatism" or whatever as cover

      7 replies 24 retweets 123 likes
    2. Leonard C Suskin‏ @Czhorat 27 Jan 2020
      Replying to @BootlegGirl

      What I've always found interesting about the trolley problem IS the arbitrariness. I initially saw it framed two ways: 1) throw a switch to move the trolley, kill 1 save 5. 2) push someone in front of the trolley to stop it. Kill 1, save 5. In 1, people will switch. in 2, not...

      1 reply 1 retweet 11 likes
    3. Leonard C Suskin‏ @Czhorat 27 Jan 2020
      Replying to @Czhorat @BootlegGirl

      ...it's the same result. One person dies to save five. The instinctive answer is different based on how "personal" it feels. It really seems to me to be a critique of a simplistic kind of pure utilitarianism. Using it for more misses the point.

      2 replies 1 retweet 9 likes
    4. Arthur Chu‏Verified account @arthur_affect 27 Jan 2020
      Replying to @Czhorat @BootlegGirl

      The original idea of the trolley problem was that in its "classic" form everyone says yes but as you reformulate it to feel more and more extreme people start to balk, even though from a naive utilitarian standpoint it's the same thing

      3 replies 1 retweet 7 likes
      Arthur Chu‏Verified account @arthur_affect 27 Jan 2020
      Replying to @arthur_affect @Czhorat @BootlegGirl

      Most people do, in fact, say that murdering one healthy person to harvest their organs to save five people is bad, even though the math is exactly the same

      12:42 PM - 27 Jan 2020
      • 1 Retweet
      • 5 Likes
      • David Kogan 💖💜💙 LuigiHann Baal Ska Tov Leonard C Suskin Dr. Ellie Lockhart. Republic serial villain.
      6 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Leonard C Suskin‏ @Czhorat 27 Jan 2020
          Replying to @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl

          Exactly. It's a critique/discussion of pure naive utilitarianism, not a real debate on who to kill to save who?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. penitent admirer‏ @loudpenitent 27 Jan 2020
          Replying to @Czhorat @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl

          Imo the other thing is that most cases of trolley problem aren't actually calculated decisions. In real life they're usually snap judgments (often by the one person who's gonna be sacrificed) or calculated military decisions where it's a choice of evils rather than ideals

          1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. Orman‏ @LizardOrman 27 Jan 2020
          Replying to @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl @Czhorat

          There is a utilitarian value to consistent principles though, which complicates things

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Bazzalisk 🇪🇺 🇮🇪 🇬🇧 🐝‏ @bazzalisk 27 Jan 2020
          Replying to @arthur_affect @Czhorat @BootlegGirl

          Yeah its an interesting tool for establishing what the limits of a person’s ethics are, but trying to use it to make real world ethical arguments quickly falls into the empty white room issue.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Random832‏ @Random832 27 Jan 2020
          Replying to @arthur_affect @Czhorat @BootlegGirl

          Of course the usual argument I see in response to *that* is that it's outweighed by the harm done by discouraging people from going into hospitals in case they get murdered for their organs, but doesn't that just mean to avoid publicity, or just take people off the street?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Random832‏ @Random832 27 Jan 2020
          Replying to @Random832 @arthur_affect and

          one particularly ridiculous one that made the rounds on the "rationalist" sites a while back was: a choice between torturing someone for 50 years, vs having an extremely large number of people get a speck of dust in their eye [guaranteed no secondary effects].

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. Matt McIrvin‏ @mattmcirvin 27 Jan 2020
          Replying to @arthur_affect @Czhorat @BootlegGirl

          The difference I see is that the original trolley problem seems like some fluke occurrence that wouldn't happen again, whereas the organ harvesting case sounds like it could become a general policy of killing millions of people to harvest organs, with all sorts of effects.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Jayna‏ @Tuplet 27 Jan 2020
          Replying to @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl @Czhorat

          The illustration of the trolly problem always involves the switch version, not the push a person onto the tracks version. The switch version seems equivalent to organ donation by choice and the push version equivalent to organ donation by force.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Leonard C Suskin‏ @Czhorat 27 Jan 2020
          Replying to @Tuplet @arthur_affect @BootlegGirl

          Not really; in either the switch or push version the actor is causing one person to die to save five. The only difference is if the actor directly acts on the victim or indirectly via a switch.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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