In many traditional systems, you did practices with form (e.g. visualization) for years before being introduced to the formless practices (with bare attention to breath being a preliminary to the latter).
Conversation
Going directly to formless practice is a modern (early 20th century) innovation that dramatically accelerates the process for people who can do it, but doesn’t work for everyone.
1
It sounds like... if one were a teacher one could recommend try one different method each day, then iterate until you find what you like?
1
I am not a teacher, so I can only speculate… Definitely trying different things seems sensible. But I’d say a day is not nearly enough to test.
2
So trying a hundred things is not feasible. Perhaps 5-10. But they aren’t isolated methods; they are parts of systems, and have structure and function. Ask: “Is this method supposed to do something I want?”
2
I guess when I asked the original Q you probably thought: "Jose's Q is a Q that assumes a premise (the goal of the practice) which he didn't ask for but he should have so here it is the question that I should have asked" (Which is actually correct)
1
Yes :)
1
2
The "goal" right now is to understand what piti and sukha (as used in Right Concentration) mean, experientially, as part of jhana 1. And it sounds like I should forget about that for now and do a combination of metta and vipassana to get there?
2
Not at all an expert here, but AIUI these phenomena require single-pointed concentration (samadhi), which would point to samatha practice. Say more about the breath "not working"? It may be that your concentration is too shallow to "see" breath-detail (that was me initially!)
1
1
Oh no, it's not even not working, I haven't given up yet. It's just that I need preliminary convincing that what I'm trying to do is what will work best. (Happens with any decision I make, optimizing mindset is strong)
1
1
Ah, no idea about "best." Vipassana and metta were extremely helpful for me in many ways, but not for piti/sukha. Also found that "dry" vipassana didn't work at all for me; had to try again once I had developed better concentration, then got some insight.
Quote Tweet
Replying to @JakeOrthwein
Implying the existence of wet vipassana
2