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I think this is an underrated take that you can be like Apple and design good things, but you can't just have good taste; you also have to be working on things, like the iPhone or Mac, /for which your taste is valid/ (because you're a target user yourself)

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Geoffrey Litt

@geoffreylitt

· Aug 4, 2020

Replying to @geoffreylitt and @rsnous

On its face, Apple seems like a counterexample to EUP philosophy -- most skilled designers on Earth, sitting in a room making stuff but maaaybe actually they're showing the power of "designing for yourself," and the skill is more optional than we assume? (not sure...)

Andy Matuschak

@andy_matuschak

Aug 4, 2020

Yes, I think this is true: because Apple doesn't engage in "design research" and similar practices, their designers seem most successful when designing "for themselves"; by comparison they seem to struggle when designing for scenarios that aren't meaningful parts of their lives.

Drew Dara-Abrams

@drewdaraabrams

Aug 4, 2020

Plus they don't have any product managers, the role that typically helps capture lots of input and distill it for designers and engineers

Andy Matuschak

@andy_matuschak

Aug 4, 2020

It's true—though I tend to prefer it when designers take on that part of the PM role anyway!

Drew Dara-Abrams

@drewdaraabrams

Aug 4, 2020

Agreed, there are healthy debates to be had about what PMs are best equipped to own. But Apple is a bit of an outlier in avoiding the "not an engineer, not a designer, and not a people manager" role completely

Replying to

and

It’s true—most places that assign product definition to design still have product managers, but they fill more the role of project management, cross-functional communication, etc. At Apple, the former’s “producers” or project managers in combo with eng/des people-managers.

7:34 PM · Aug 4, 2020TweetDeck

Replying to

and

Good PMs will define what to build + problems to solve in a rigorous, structured way that designers usually don't. More critically, they're solving for intersection of user needs and business needs (Apple is unusual in tech in that what is good for users is good for business).