Conversation

Open challenge for a live "notes tool utilization" contest. I'll represent

, someone can represent

Audience chooses a topic we agree on, then we have 30 minutes to put together the best outline possible on the topic using only our tool.

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Robert Haisfield

@RobertHaisfield

Apr 7, 2020

@andy_matuschak

representing yourself and whatever it is you're using :)

Andy Matuschak

@andy_matuschak

Apr 7, 2020

Sorry: mu. I'm not interested in using my notes this way. This fitness function isn't uncorrelated with my goals, but it's a poor basis vector. I really don't identify with the goals of almost anyone who writes about notes. More and more I feel I need to abandon the term "note."

Andy Matuschak

@andy_matuschak

Apr 7, 2020

(This sounds a touch uncharitable, but please interpret it charitably) The most common goal for note systems (particularly e.g. BASB) seems to be "I want to be able to rapidly write a short Medium essay from excerpts and jottings." That's fine! It's not my goal.

Replying to

My goal is: "I want to produce novel, powerful ideas." A computer-supported thinking system is helpful insofar as it supports that. But it's hard to evaluate those systems empirically because such ideas are rare. People who blog about note-taking systems don't produce them.

7:18 PM · Apr 7, 2020Twitter Web App

Replying to

That's a notch too strong a generalization as stated. But only a notch. I don't think it's an accident that Luhmann wrote "Communicating with slip boxes" near the end of his career.

Jeremy Dunck

@jdunck

Apr 27, 2020

There are some rare exceptions.

and

come to mind.

Replying to

In this vein, I’ve been thinking about how tools can help me: - navigate complex, branching lines of thought, without losing one’s place - find conflicts between existing ideas - combine and build upon existing ideas - make relevant, but forgotten ideas available

Robert Haisfield

@RobertHaisfield

Apr 7, 2020

I'd say my Roam is currently developing in a very positive direction with 1, 3, and 4, but not yet 2.

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Yoni Balkind (Uber rating 4.65)

Replying to

Is it fair to measure note taking against that goal? Isn't note taking merely a tool for processing, storing, connecting, and retrieving info? (Which I'd argue is a worthwhile goal in itself) Dont novel, powerful ideas come from something/somewhere else?

Yoni Balkind (Uber rating 4.65)

@yonibee

Apr 8, 2020

Also, we need a name for this weird sub-culture of note taking geeks (which is a branch of the weird productivity sub-culture), mostly so we can remind ourselves how particular (and a bit funny) this little sub-culture is. (I say this as a card-carrying member of course)

Replying to

Counterexamples: Many greats discussed process, while also building tools and systems that were hugely influential Doug Engelbart - Augmenting The Human Intellect Rich Hickey - Simple Made Easy, Design Composition and Performance, etc etc

- Age of Essay etc.

Theres a way you can say all those meta-thoughts about process are "blogging about note taking systems" If you say they aren't, seems like "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Writing is a tool for thinking Changing how you write changes how you think.

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Replying to

How do notes help you produce new ideas? Your notes are well-structured and easy to navigate. But how does the process usually start?