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Indeed! Per Kay: perhaps we should instead be optimizing “number of Sistine Chapel ceilings per generation.” vpri.org/pdf/hc_pers_co

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Carlos De la Guardia

@dela3499

· Oct 23, 2018

Replying to @dela3499 and @andy_matuschak

I get the impression that self-directed learning is tested by the perverse question: “When students are free to be different and learn what they like how they like, do they nevertheless turn out the same, and learn precisely and only what I want them to know - efficiently?”

Ken Kocienda

@kocienda

Oct 23, 2018

Are you implying that the Sistine Chapel ceiling is an exemplar of self-directed work? If so, I’m not sure that’s right. Pope Julius II coerced Michelangelo to do the painting. The artist himself would have much rather kept to his sculpture.

Andy Matuschak

@andy_matuschak

Replying to

@kocienda

No, Kay argues that we should choose goals which emphasize leaps of beauty and insight over, say, proficiency with a set of standard skills. So: is it possible that student-directed methods support the former but are judged by the latter?

6:09 PM · Oct 23, 2018Twitter Web App

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and

Indeed, though goals are unnecessary and often positively harmful.

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David Deutsch

@DavidDeutschOxf

· Jun 12, 2018

Replying to @webdevMason

Choosing a destination as a means of setting shorter term priorities is a bad idea. It makes it hard to discover your mistake until you're dead. Hash out what you want NOW—much rarer & harder than it sounds—and think about the long term as one of many ways of criticising that.

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I get your point. Yet, fresco painting is a difficult skill, and without proficiency in it, leaps of beauty and insight in that medium are not possible. So, a question: is it possible to make skill acquisition joyful?

Andy Matuschak

@andy_matuschak

Oct 23, 2018

Yes, but possibly only if it’s a skill the child has decided they want to acquire. At this point, better for me to direct you to the relevant passage. You might enjoy the paper, which has some personal relevance: this is the one where Kay famously drew a (better) iPad in 1972.

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