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andreasdotorg's profile
andreasdotorg
andreasdotorg
andreasdotorg
@andreasdotorg

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andreasdotorg

@andreasdotorg

I'm a hacker, pretty much in the old school sense of the word. But I do know IT security too.

Joined April 2008

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    1. Don A. Bailey‏ @DonAndrewBailey May 3
      Replying to @andreasdotorg

      I’m one of the best when it comes to finding 0day in C. :) but I know it’s easy now, to write safe C. You can disagree all you want, but the tools and mitigation’s are available. Our industry failure is not making access simple and straight forward.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg May 3
      Replying to @DonAndrewBailey

      #define SIZE 8192 char buf[SIZE]; void cpy(struct foo* p, int count) { int n = count * sizeof(struct foo); if ((n < SIZE) && (n > 0)) memcpy(buf, p, n); } Safe or not? Why? How many people can spot this? Which tools? Far from easy.

      6 replies 1 retweet 10 likes
    3. Don A. Bailey‏ @DonAndrewBailey May 3
      Replying to @andreasdotorg

      Creating situations that are easily avoidable doesn’t prove your point, it proves mine. :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg May 4
      Replying to @DonAndrewBailey

      What about the situation in the above code is easy to avoid? I've shown the snippet to rooms full of people who do code audits for a living. Maybe 1 in 30 even gets what the problem is. Regular engineers? Zero out of 30.

      5 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Don A. Bailey‏ @DonAndrewBailey May 4
      Replying to @andreasdotorg

      That’s total nonsense. No one that does professional code auditing would miss that. It’s the most basic C issue. I feel like you’re just trying hard to make your point. There are far more serious undefined issues. Evading this is cake.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg May 4
      Replying to @DonAndrewBailey

      I have the feeling that you still think that I am referring to integer overflows as the problem inthe above code. It is not. It is that what looks like the mitigation for the overflow, checking that the result is below zero, is wrong.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Don A. Bailey‏ @DonAndrewBailey May 4
      Replying to @andreasdotorg

      🙄 the entire class of bugs is the overflow, the verification bypass from optimization and pointer arithmetic. I don’t get why you think you’re being clever trying to trick me. I’m going back to bed. When I wake up give me an actual problem I didn’t solve 10 years ago.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg May 4
      Replying to @DonAndrewBailey

      The verification bypass from optimization is something that many, many people are not aware of. That's my point. And it's not easily avoidable, you need to tread very carefully. And then there's alot more UB in C that could bite you.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Don A. Bailey‏ @DonAndrewBailey May 4
      Replying to @andreasdotorg

      Stop talking to me as if you can teach me C when you can’t even see the variants of the LZO/LZ4 bugs in kernel land are UB relevant, yet you call them “standard” after checking for 5 minutes. Christ. Get over yourself 🎃

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Don A. Bailey‏ @DonAndrewBailey May 4
      Replying to @DonAndrewBailey @andreasdotorg

      Your undefined behavior tricks may wow infosec pros with no coding experience but anyone that writes C professionally should grok this stuff better than both you and I can. Hell, Linus gets this stuff quite well 😊

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg May 4
      Replying to @DonAndrewBailey

      This is not my experience with the vast majority of people writing C professionally. They do tend to assume signed ints have two's complement behaviour. Not everybody is Linus.

      2:26 AM - 4 May 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • escape whatever Patrick Toomey
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Patrick Toomey‏ @patricktoomey May 4
          Replying to @andreasdotorg @DonAndrewBailey

          Tend to agree here with @andreasdotorg. So, the prereq is being a “C pro”/Linus Torvalds? That doesn’t scale for an engineering team. Teams are composed of diverse people,not all 15 year C pros. The risks are too many and the learning curve to high for what most build today

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Patrick Toomey‏ @patricktoomey May 4
          Replying to @patricktoomey @andreasdotorg @DonAndrewBailey

          We naturally evolve toward higher and higher abstractions. There is always still use for the lower layers (someone is designing the fabrication processes for chips and the microcode that runs). But, it is relegated to a smaller and smaller group that eventually rounds to zero

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Patrick Toomey‏ @patricktoomey May 4
          Replying to @patricktoomey @andreasdotorg @DonAndrewBailey

          And..if you are in that group, cool..we will always need those folks. But it doesn’t mean we need to encourage the “next generation” that chip fabbing, microcode, and assembly are is easier than they used to be...come on over and join us.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Don A. Bailey‏ @DonAndrewBailey May 4
          Replying to @patricktoomey @andreasdotorg

          Did you miss the reply from @paxteam that spoiled the mini blog I was going to drop today demonstrating andreas’ example is fruitless? Writing safe C is easy. He didn’t even understand that his example was moot. :)

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Don A. Bailey‏ @DonAndrewBailey May 4
          Replying to @DonAndrewBailey @patricktoomey and

          Not to mention, I was joking about Linus... LT is awesome but that was meant to be tongue in cheek. You guys need to drop the whole “you need to be this tall to C” antics :) it’s really not that hard.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Don A. Bailey‏ @DonAndrewBailey May 4
          Replying to @DonAndrewBailey @patricktoomey and

          Even LLVM has a great blog series about what actually is undefined behavior and how you can avoid it. Not that damn hard 😊

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. End of conversation

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