Yep. "A monad is just a monoid in the category of endofunctors" is a perfectly sensible explanation to me now, but the barrier to entry is just so high. Wish abstract algebra was taught in undergrad compsci courses, because it's so damn useful for building larger systems.
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Replying to @drathier
It's literally at the heart of my overarching security theory (well defined interfaces, known good state) and I had to get there from the practical direction
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Welcome to the Light!
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Replying to @andreasdotorg @drathier
Small number of nice smart people, large number of terrible ones. The light might be overrated after all
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Oh, don't get me started with people. But the math makes sense!
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Replying to @andreasdotorg @drathier
Damn thing is the math of state management, a task we're practically terrible at. My frustration came from, wait, Monads are *useful*?! Usefulness is not a compliment here.
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Replying to @dakami
Math is not made up. It is discovered. I can feel your frustration. But mankind hasn't come up with a better abstraction yet. It just is that difficult, and we have to deal with it. Don't you feel hope that at least we have a name for the beast?
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Replying to @andreasdotorg
We don't discover uninteresting things, because we just don't notice them (or if we do, we can't really get anyone else to notice them too). Math is a subset of true relationships. This branch of math describes a sort of discrete statefulness that interesting problems have.
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Replying to @dakami
The problem I see is telling beginners who just want to print "hello world" that that's an IO monad. Do they need that level of detail to get stuff done? Certainly not. Is that what is really going on? Oh yes!
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Replying to @andreasdotorg
Whereas it might actually be useful to express, "hello world wasn't printed, and then it was" like "hello world" | print extending to "hello world" | send_email "hello world" | extract_noun | print world
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Yeah. Do notation. Heck, powershell got it right!
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