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andreasdotorg
andreasdotorg
andreasdotorg
@andreasdotorg

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andreasdotorg

@andreasdotorg

I'm a hacker, pretty much in the old school sense of the word. But I do know IT security too.

Joined April 2008

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    1. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
      Replying to @dakami @siosm

      I'm not surprised, I even see the benefit, but for our not so small use case, it borders on the irrelevant. Not worth accepting the risk of less than stellar security game.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
      Replying to @andreasdotorg @siosm

      Look, this bug begins and ends at not using https. The scene that doesn’t see that is the scene with the stale game.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
      Replying to @dakami @siosm

      It actually continues with extracting the archive before verifying the checksum.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
      Replying to @andreasdotorg @siosm

      No. The moment you parse a byte that didn’t come from the secure channel, you’re fucked. No exceptions. That includes the sum to check. It’s not saving you. Sorry.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
      Replying to @dakami

      Absolutely not. A package with a secure signature is a secure channel. You know, these days, not just using Uptane, which integrates well with package managers and solves all those problems, is something I don't understand.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
      Replying to @andreasdotorg

      No. It’s not. That is what the data is saying. Attempts to make secure packages don’t, in practice, work any better than signed JavaScript on HTTP pages, for the same reasons, as they’re the same thing. It’s just rolling your own crypto. Use TLS.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
      Replying to @dakami

      A couple of really smart people did implement Uptane. Go have a look at it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
      Replying to @andreasdotorg

      What’s the underlying crypto engine? Gpg?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
      Replying to @dakami

      Nope. It's something designed and built from scratch.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
      Replying to @andreasdotorg

      Early days for the code, but getting uptake in a real industry. Cool.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
      Replying to @dakami

      I'm biased here, but just have a look at the code these folks are writing:https://github.com/advancedtelematic …

      3:18 AM - 15 Sep 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Tony Naggs
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
          Replying to @andreasdotorg

          Let me put it this way. I’m hopeful *for* a future where we can say more than “just use TLS”. One isn’t impossible, just how we’ve been saying to achieve it doesn’t actually work in practice. Uptane’s young. But promising.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Dominik‏ @domenuk Sep 15
          Replying to @dakami @andreasdotorg

          Dominik Retweeted Kevin Borgolte

          "Just use TLS" isn't easy nor necessarily useful when you think about it.https://twitter.com/caovc/status/1039768056493432832 …

          Dominik added,

          Kevin Borgolte @caovc
          Replying to @caovc @reyammer
          A reason why HTTPS doesn't help are mirrors: You trust Ubuntu, but you don't need or want to trust the third party mirror. HTTPS can guarantee that you are talking to the 3rd party, but not that they've not modified the ISO. The current model proves the latter, which is stronger.
          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Dominik‏ @domenuk Sep 15
          Replying to @domenuk @dakami @andreasdotorg

          (That tweet being about the current Ubuntu release btw. - @ubuntu also doesn't manage to "just use TLS")

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
          Replying to @domenuk @andreasdotorg @ubuntu

          Complete opposite approach here — I’m trying to drill into what’s really going on with “just use tls”. Is it more expensive? Is it operational? I put together https://github.com/dakami/jfe  a while back and want to see it’s faults.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
          Replying to @dakami @domenuk and

          This started with “I can’t believe file oriented crypto failed” and it’s stupid, it effectively always does. But it’s true, there is resistance to universal TLS, so what’s the truth there?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Dominik‏ @domenuk Sep 15
          Replying to @dakami @andreasdotorg @ubuntu

          Load balancing is often done on a DNS level, so every mirror (it's trivial to become a mirror) would need a certificate for the same address. If you start giving out certs in bulk you may as well not bother with TLS.. Checking file integrity is not a bad idea for this situation.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
          Replying to @domenuk @andreasdotorg @ubuntu

          Interesting. Another problem DNSSEC doesn't have, since CNAMEs (in theory, anyway) get to CNAME the trust relationship too.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        9. End of conversation

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