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andreasdotorg
andreasdotorg
andreasdotorg
@andreasdotorg

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andreasdotorg

@andreasdotorg

I'm a hacker, pretty much in the old school sense of the word. But I do know IT security too.

Joined April 2008

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    1. Timothée Ravier‏ @siosm Sep 13

      Timothée Ravier Retweeted Thomas H. Ptacek

      Alpine Linux? * Package download without HTTPS; * Operation on archive content before signature checks; * Custom updater & tar handling code. Maybe you should use a real distribution for your base images and stop worrying about that extra 2Mo it takes on your 2To drive.https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/1040320695048302593 …

      Timothée Ravier added,

      Thomas H. Ptacek @tqbf
      This is bad. https://justi.cz/security/2018/09/13/alpine-apk-rce.html …
      14 replies 236 retweets 294 likes
    2. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
      Replying to @siosm @andreasdotorg

      Alpine is significant for containers, which are basically processes that ship with known userspaces. Which is a thing we like.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
      Replying to @dakami @siosm

      How is that significantly different from a container with CentOS 6 in it?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
      Replying to @andreasdotorg @siosm

      Base CentOS is 194MB, base Alpine is 10MB.

      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
    5. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
      Replying to @dakami @siosm

      That's significant enough to warrant total neglect on secure updates, I guess.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
      Replying to @andreasdotorg @siosm

      Total neglect is not having code that had bugs. The reality is we didn’t deprecate updates over HTTP because like getting the signature files from attempts at gpg. The reality is gpg doesn’t work for this for almost anybody.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
      Replying to @dakami @siosm

      At the current price for EBS storage on Amazon, my cost overhead for not using Alpine is 2 cents per container per month. I'm not even beginning to have a discussion there until they have their security game down.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
      Replying to @andreasdotorg @siosm

      Universe of interesting things happen when you’re running hundreds of thousands of containers, on one machine. Number and size of simultaneous memory mappings is a thing. Technology is different now. Welcome to the new game.

      3 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    9. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
      Replying to @dakami @siosm

      This is not a typical use case, I'd dare to say it borders on the pathological. We do run on the order of tens of thousands containers, but spread across a couple of thousand nodes.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
      Replying to @andreasdotorg @siosm

      You want to understand why Alpine exists, you get to do some research. There is a lot of innovation happening past the typical these days. Typical systems are neither secure nor scalable. It shouldn’t surprise you a min container distribution exists. Hell, instantiation latency

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
      Replying to @dakami @siosm

      I'm not surprised, I even see the benefit, but for our not so small use case, it borders on the irrelevant. Not worth accepting the risk of less than stellar security game.

      2:55 AM - 15 Sep 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Ask Cybergibbons!
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
          Replying to @andreasdotorg @siosm

          Look, this bug begins and ends at not using https. The scene that doesn’t see that is the scene with the stale game.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
          Replying to @dakami @siosm

          It actually continues with extracting the archive before verifying the checksum.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
          Replying to @andreasdotorg @siosm

          No. The moment you parse a byte that didn’t come from the secure channel, you’re fucked. No exceptions. That includes the sum to check. It’s not saving you. Sorry.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
          Replying to @dakami

          Absolutely not. A package with a secure signature is a secure channel. You know, these days, not just using Uptane, which integrates well with package managers and solves all those problems, is something I don't understand.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
          Replying to @andreasdotorg

          No. It’s not. That is what the data is saying. Attempts to make secure packages don’t, in practice, work any better than signed JavaScript on HTTP pages, for the same reasons, as they’re the same thing. It’s just rolling your own crypto. Use TLS.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
          Replying to @dakami

          A couple of really smart people did implement Uptane. Go have a look at it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Sep 15
          Replying to @andreasdotorg

          What’s the underlying crypto engine? Gpg?

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. andreasdotorg‏ @andreasdotorg Sep 15
          Replying to @dakami

          Nope. It's something designed and built from scratch.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 9 more replies

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