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alert_insecure's profile
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@alert_insecure

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@alert_insecure

self isolation professional | hobbyist reverse engineer | full time shitposter @the_secret_club

reversing.games
Joined July 2018

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    1. Derek Rynd‏ @daax_rynd Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
      • Report NetzDG Violation
      Replying to @fox8091_1 @layle_ctf and

      So, what are your thoughts on this: what if the driver were to be performing integrity checks on whatever communication protocols an attacker would 'spoof' or 'patch'? E.g. Any IRP handlers, Callbacks, Named pipes, etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. fox8091‏ @fox8091_1 Apr 14
      • Report Tweet
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      Replying to @daax_rynd @layle_ctf and

      The entire reason they're moving to the kernel is because you can't protect userland from the kernel. But you also can't protect the kernel from the kernel. Integrity checks fail when you fully control both ends, which you can do with a malicious kernel module.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Derek Rynd‏ @daax_rynd Apr 14
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      Replying to @fox8091_1 @layle_ctf and

      I was asking what an attacker could do, not why they should or shouldn't be in the kernel.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. fox8091‏ @fox8091_1 Apr 14
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      Replying to @daax_rynd @layle_ctf and

      An attacker could just block the anti-cheat from loading and load their own module that just reports everything as all good (either by making the functions do nothing or returning valid responses) while allowing them to cheat as much as they want.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Derek Rynd‏ @daax_rynd Apr 14
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      Replying to @fox8091_1 @layle_ctf and

      This is quite trivialized. The amount of work and expertise to accomplish such a feat is cumbersome. These drivers load on boot for a reason that you've also just stated. I'm not sure why Riot is taking all the flak when BattlEye, EAC, etc., use kernel drivers as well.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. fox8091‏ @fox8091_1 Apr 14
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      Replying to @daax_rynd @layle_ctf and

      Unless the anti-cheat drivers are ELAM signed (very unlikely), you can just change the load order and load your module on boot

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Layle‏ @layle_ctf Apr 14
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      Replying to @fox8091_1 @daax_rynd and

      The load order doesn't matter at all. If you really wish you can forcefully unload the driver at any time. I don't think Riot developed something that would make this impossible?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. fox8091‏ @fox8091_1 Apr 14
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      Replying to @layle_ctf @daax_rynd and

      I mean, in theory they could prevent force unloading the driver by mangling the kernel API to unload modules, but that would break other stuff. But yeah, load order doesn't even matter that much

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Layle‏ @layle_ctf Apr 14
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      Replying to @fox8091_1 @daax_rynd and

      "Mangling the kernel API" requires you to modify things in kernel space which is something that Microsoft *does not* want you to do which is why PatchGuard exists.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. fox8091‏ @fox8091_1 Apr 14
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      Replying to @layle_ctf @daax_rynd and

      There are tools to both disable PatchGuard at runtime (Shark) and at boot time (EfiGuard), but at that point it's hitting malware levels of invasive

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Atte‏ @alert_insecure Apr 14
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      Replying to @fox8091_1 @layle_ctf and

      lol

      12:24 PM - 14 Apr 2020
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      • Layle
      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like

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