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I: Is there separate self? M: No, logically impossible. Only intellectual conviction though. still need help! I: lol no worries. examine 'no self', what feelings? M: sad... wasted effort building self up as special I: what's protecting?

M: fear is not being special, not being 'something'. same as fear of death. I: what doesn't exist cannot die. M: yes, it's crazy. I: what is behind arrogance and rightness? M: just more thoughts!

I: yes just programming, conditioning, and conflicting beliefs. iVirus. M: yes! and looking removes it. a POV can't possibly be a problem. I: yes, when a POV is taken for reality it's a problems. As long as POV is known to be story it has no power and dissolves.

I: Now write down what u expect from this. Sometimes a subtle belief is blocking. M: See no self => forever happy, humble, generous, loving, spiritual, successful, special. It all comes back to wanting to enlighten the "I"!

I: Is there a "you" that's seeing this? M: There is no 'me' trying to find a non-existent entity! No 'me' looking for 'me'. I: ok last few steps. After seeing through illusion life doesn't change. Same wood, same water. What changes is freedom in every experience.

I: freedom to feel and enjoy. Anger too, as u won't be consumed by it. Happy ending is the end of loops of judgement feeding on themselves. Life will not suddenly transform. It will over time, peace increases. Specialness is dropped. Just peaceful ordinary human.

I: Explain how self works. M: 'self' doesn't 'work' at all. It only appears to exist and function. The thought or sensation that says 'self' is not thought and sensation. It is existence itself. I: how does liberation feel?

M: the same as always, just no anxiety around everything. no desire to be liberated, no desire for a different state. Doubts and reservations raise too, but also empty. I: very cool. what made you realize?

M: nothing in particular. I'm still grumpy, lazy, etc... no change there. but when u asked 'how does it feel to be liberated' I felt it was not directed at the mind so "I" could not answer and sth clicked. I: very cool *Bound by ... nothing ... very smooth awakening.

16/ Brian(B) B: Keep reverting to ego and pain, plz help. E: What is 'I'? B: Non duality and stuff. But why still pain of parental criticism, unemployment insecurity, etc... "I" doesn't exist yet still feels unworthy.

E: Look at these emotions. Aren't they the same as thoughts? B: fear is behind emotion? E: and behind fear? B: nothing...empty space. lots on the surface of fear though. Feels less personal doing this. E: yep, all impersonal. Including "I" yes?

B: Sense emptiness behind "I" but it's still standing there. It feels very real. E: If I told u to find Santa, what would you say? Santa = thoughts/feelings/sensations of Santa. Self = thoughts/feelings/sensations of self.

B: Aha! I am Santa. Ty! E: yw! *Bound my mistaking the reality of feeling for the reality of reality.

Losing motivation at this point so just summing up core issues. 17/ Dave: Bound by belief that liberation is eternal peace in heaven vs 'nothing changes'.

18/ Peter(P) P: I read Daniel Ingram's book and wanna be an Arhat. E: "What is 'I'" P: * blah blah blah blah blah * E: Stop throwing out random ideas and really look. What is "I" for you? P: body?

E: srsly? which part? P: okok, it's 'my unique perspective when I look." and I obviously can't look at my perspective. E: that perspective is part of reality, 'you' is not. true or not? Unique perspectives exist but no one 'owns' them.

P: Can't find, but I see behavior that implies self. E.g. prayers imply God. When I stopped believing in god I stopped praying, but when I stop believing in self I continue selfing.

E: yes but if God is Existence Itself then praying or not-praying doesn't matter. Same with selfing. Do or do not there is no difference. Life is just life-ing whether you are you-ing or not. P: I am a birdsong. E: very good. y r 'u' so vague and illusive?

P: There is no I", just looking...when 'looking', there is no past or present as these are just ways of referencing the looker. Many other concepts are unnecessary. Suffering has no place to grab on. E: great, now what is 'self', what is 'I'?

P: 'selfing' is a behavior, a verbal/cognitive discourse based in language. "I" is just a word pointing to nothing just like a blank check. E: cool : ) See how nothing has changed for Life? No self as angel, just free — an embodiment free of self. ty for liberating consciousness

* Very smooth as well, gurus lightly held.

18/ Garsius Bound by the infatuation of awareness being aware of awareness recursive fractal trap. Self becoming infatuated with the mechanism of self in a attempt to transcend itself.

19/ Greg(G) G: There is no Greg to get upset, only a process of mental and physical phenomena. And yet, there is still the behaviour as if there is a Greg! Mechanism is seen but unconditioning "I" is slow. Is there a faster way? E: y u mediate?

G: ' to bring 'not doing' awareness into this life. E: 'u' and 'life' separate? There is a 'thing' 'u' need to 'do'? G: How can life and I be separate. True separation is impossible, only an illusion. E: spouting dogma & intellectual talk you are. you must really investigate.

G: mind is a spoiled child, it must learn. E: u are making a 'good' change? G: meditation opens space in the mind for pure awareness. E: there is *only* pure awareness, no opening is necessary. what is outside of pure awareness?

G: nothing can be know outside awareness but why jump to the conclusion that awareness is all there is. E: not trying to prove anything to you, you must see for yourself. who is there to be liberated? G: body is slightly nervous at being questioned. useless conditioned response

E: what do you want? we're not trying to prove anything to each other. what are you trying to find? what is not yet here? G: the end of my suffering. I know it's not really 'my' suffering, still, suffering occurs and when it occurs there is a 'me' that experiences it.

E: How do you see the end of suffering? G: a long fantastic mind state that is not reactive to anything. I am now confused... Is the noting of my suffering still suffering? Aha! every time sth seems to be missing, the thought that perceives this always has an 'I'!

G: e.g. if unhappiness exists then it just IS. However if "I" am unhappy than "I" is missing 'happy'. The presence of the "I" is what causes the feeling of missing sth and the desire to seek something! E: Did you ever exist. What is "I"?

G: Greg is a just a mental fabrication, like a details of memory being constructed in the present. Real world condition give rise to the fabrication but the content is purely fictional. "I" just a mental concept, often occurring w/ "Greg" but fundamentally empty.