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R: okey i'll stop the equanimity techniques. E: You think liberation is dropping of identification. Not possible. That's mind's job. It's seeing that all this identification is fictional. Drop you caricature expectations. Tell me honestly wut u know bout liberation.

R: Liberation is like being a ghost seeing other people like ghosts. E: That's acting dead. Ur problem is u escape into this thick dharma self. A really clever, deep, wise one. Look at it closely. What do you see?

R: One doubt is I'm agreeing about 'no me' b/c it's too difficult to find me. I know I can't see myself w/o a mirror but I still feel and 'know' I exist so I keep searching. E: Release the struggle. Batman not real. Easy to find a thought of Batman. Real batman? Impossible.

E: Look seriously. Stop comparing to ur dharmic knowledge. Just look, like you're five years old. Drop all the bullshit ideas of enlightenment. It's like a massive weight on your neck. R: Feel uneasy... I realize there is another option

E: THERE IS NO 'YOU' TO REALIZE. R: things just happen. e.g. my fingers type faster than I can coordinate. E: WHO is coordinating? Stop with the "I". You just seem to like talking about spiritual stuff b/c it indulges you.

E: 'you' is just a label. see through it anytime. nothing will change. all the good stuff will stay, as will all the bad stuff. Drop the idea that Batman exists b/c Batman never existed. R: Ah! I see the gate now! No more doubts!

E: Tell me more, you think I'll fall for 3 exclamation marks? R: Mind is blank, like a deer in headlights asking 'y u asking me if sth that isn't there is there.' E: Check if u believe a 'you' is living ur life.

R: Life is happening by itself. But so easy to forget. Like being outside the theater when a transparent screen comes down and the movie starts playing again. Someone yells 'NOT REAL' and fully engrossed watching the movie we agree "Duh, we're outside the theater."

E: What happens to life now? R: as you said, everything remains the same. Just that now there is a cool detachment, just letting things be. no need to push away or pull towards. Reality is more vivid. E: good, I was about to bring out the zen stick to strike you.

R: much thanks Elena! *Bound by a recursive story structure. E.g. author writing a story about author discovering himself. Super spiritual self.

15/ Matt(M) M: There is no 'I' to get enlightened. I: yep. but also no "I" necessary for *anything* Imagine a spoon. Take the time now. What is it made of, where did it come from, etc.. Now look. There is no spoon. Self is the same. Tell me more about 'thoughts'

M: Yes... thoughts appearing and disappearing within consciousness cannot be evidence of a separate self. Matt is just shiny spoon. I: And the thought of "I"? M: Yes, that is a thought too like the rest. It is like an eyeball behind the eyes sensation.

I: Is there separate self? M: No, logically impossible. Only intellectual conviction though. still need help! I: lol no worries. examine 'no self', what feelings? M: sad... wasted effort building self up as special I: what's protecting?

M: fear is not being special, not being 'something'. same as fear of death. I: what doesn't exist cannot die. M: yes, it's crazy. I: what is behind arrogance and rightness? M: just more thoughts!

I: yes just programming, conditioning, and conflicting beliefs. iVirus. M: yes! and looking removes it. a POV can't possibly be a problem. I: yes, when a POV is taken for reality it's a problems. As long as POV is known to be story it has no power and dissolves.

I: Now write down what u expect from this. Sometimes a subtle belief is blocking. M: See no self => forever happy, humble, generous, loving, spiritual, successful, special. It all comes back to wanting to enlighten the "I"!

I: Is there a "you" that's seeing this? M: There is no 'me' trying to find a non-existent entity! No 'me' looking for 'me'. I: ok last few steps. After seeing through illusion life doesn't change. Same wood, same water. What changes is freedom in every experience.

I: freedom to feel and enjoy. Anger too, as u won't be consumed by it. Happy ending is the end of loops of judgement feeding on themselves. Life will not suddenly transform. It will over time, peace increases. Specialness is dropped. Just peaceful ordinary human.

I: Explain how self works. M: 'self' doesn't 'work' at all. It only appears to exist and function. The thought or sensation that says 'self' is not thought and sensation. It is existence itself. I: how does liberation feel?

M: the same as always, just no anxiety around everything. no desire to be liberated, no desire for a different state. Doubts and reservations raise too, but also empty. I: very cool. what made you realize?

M: nothing in particular. I'm still grumpy, lazy, etc... no change there. but when u asked 'how does it feel to be liberated' I felt it was not directed at the mind so "I" could not answer and sth clicked. I: very cool *Bound by ... nothing ... very smooth awakening.

16/ Brian(B) B: Keep reverting to ego and pain, plz help. E: What is 'I'? B: Non duality and stuff. But why still pain of parental criticism, unemployment insecurity, etc... "I" doesn't exist yet still feels unworthy.

E: Look at these emotions. Aren't they the same as thoughts? B: fear is behind emotion? E: and behind fear? B: nothing...empty space. lots on the surface of fear though. Feels less personal doing this. E: yep, all impersonal. Including "I" yes?

B: Sense emptiness behind "I" but it's still standing there. It feels very real. E: If I told u to find Santa, what would you say? Santa = thoughts/feelings/sensations of Santa. Self = thoughts/feelings/sensations of self.

B: Aha! I am Santa. Ty! E: yw! *Bound my mistaking the reality of feeling for the reality of reality.

Losing motivation at this point so just summing up core issues. 17/ Dave: Bound by belief that liberation is eternal peace in heaven vs 'nothing changes'.

18/ Peter(P) P: I read Daniel Ingram's book and wanna be an Arhat. E: "What is 'I'" P: * blah blah blah blah blah * E: Stop throwing out random ideas and really look. What is "I" for you? P: body?

E: srsly? which part? P: okok, it's 'my unique perspective when I look." and I obviously can't look at my perspective. E: that perspective is part of reality, 'you' is not. true or not? Unique perspectives exist but no one 'owns' them.

P: Can't find, but I see behavior that implies self. E.g. prayers imply God. When I stopped believing in god I stopped praying, but when I stop believing in self I continue selfing.

E: yes but if God is Existence Itself then praying or not-praying doesn't matter. Same with selfing. Do or do not there is no difference. Life is just life-ing whether you are you-ing or not. P: I am a birdsong. E: very good. y r 'u' so vague and illusive?