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J: But I still have doubts. omg there is always a feeling of a “me” watching everything, but “I” know that’s impossible. Really frustrated.

I: The frustration is a distraction. Fear is still protecting the idea that a self is needed to keep everything under control. You see that there is no watcher right? J: yep I: Free will? J: doesn't exist. I: hmm.. seems like ur through. What was the last push?

J: "I" am not sure if "I" am done b/c "I" was waiting for a major change. But now I see it's the dropping of an old belief. Nothing changes, just the perspective is different.

J: Last push was when I recognized fear & frustration as protection mechanisms. Q for u. Why do I still feel like I make decisions? I: The labelling & mind discussion still goes on but the decision is effortless. When heart aligns, the mind rabble stops.

J: Ok, ty I: yw. *Bound by waiting for the Big Thing.

8/ Charles(C) C: I do lots of Vipassana. Trying to understand Advaita. Intellectually I accept no self. I don't feel liberated though. Why? E: Ok, no books or websites no matter how profound. Don't believe me. Tell ur truth exactly. First: how does "no-self" make u feel?

C: I agree w/ it. But it's an intellectual agreement. I see that no one is driving the car but I still feel like I'm driving the car. E: Take Spiderman. The stories, films, drawings, etc.. of him are all real. But the actual Spiderman isn't. Self is like Spiderman.

C: I understand that. I really don't believe in self. I can't even find it. But still I behave as if self were there, so it's still there. When I look, I can't find it. E: Ur still trying to believe ur way there. You gotta SEE. Try this. Where does ur belief come from?

C: Lots of different experiences coming to the same conclusion. I just can't help feeling "me" despite *knowing* there isn't a me. I'm stuck in a paradox. E: You need to really find out. Not be picking the one you feel is more profound and try to convince urself of it.

C: Typing now, the body is here, the keyboard and the screen are here, the action of typing is taking place, and thoughts and more thoughts… E: Now look for "sense of self".

C: It's strongest when thinking about needs & desires. E.g. work & money. Fear about not being able to earn a livelihood.. A realisation: Work will go much better if “I” gets out of the way. E: plz stop trying to analyze ur way free. shut down ur story making functions.

C: so frustrating. what do I specifically do? I wish I could climb 20 mountains and get this over with. E: i's not about climbing 20 mountains, just one step. The idea that it's hard is appealing to the self who wants to be special, more spiritual, more hardcore, etc..

E: In Vipassana there's a nice linear structure. This isn't that. Don't look to me for a set of instructions. This is pointing, but the finger is not instruction. Do not calculate like chess "Oh she means this ... or that..."

C: k so I started questioning my wants from enlightenment: freedom from self-badness, no more work, everlasting solution to all problems, be revered, very special no one else should get it. basically I want to exchange my broken Self for Super Self. sounds so stupid now...

E: Very honest! Let's sweep aside these cartoons and get real. You see what your fantasies are hiding now? There is no magic. It's simple. A 'cosmic joke'. Again. What is "I"?

C: Was brushing my teeth and realized this "I thought" thought is part of every thought. I do not live my life as if Batman existed but self continues to arise. The strongest "I" comes up when it's controlling or directing attention.

E: Yea, "I" is everywhere. Don't try to purge identity though, that's impossible. Classic trap. See that no identity can ever refer to anything real. Don't purge identity. Look behind it and see that there's nothing there.

C: I think I got it. "I" thoughts will always continue to arise but I don't have to believe in their story and give them energy. What a small shift, not a big bang. ty! E: yw! ty for being so honest. *Bound by expecting "I" thoughts to disappear.

9/ Tom(T) T: I'm another "gets it intellectually but not as a gut-feeling" guy. I: Ok, np. I'll help. What is "I" T: The doer is just a bag of thoughts about the doer. I know this but everything feels wrapped in "I". "I" colors every experience * objectifies it.

I: Try this. See that all thoughts, including this "I" thought just floats in and out of consciousness? T: Ok. Tried to really reinforced that there is no "I" I: yea but what did the reinforcing T: hmm... that's just another thought... I was just mantra-ing "There is no self."

I: Nice progress! What about feelings? T: *poetry about meditating under a full moon* I: Unique method... but seeing through illusion and seeing that Frodo Baggins isn't real both have nth. to do with meditation. T: * more poetry *

I: Ok... let's try sth different. Self is a REAL character. Real likes, real dislikes, but fictional. What do you see now? T: Okay.. trying to see "self" to be as real as Batman. But the "I" is still looking...

I: Ok good, you see the character. Now back to "I". "I" is a thought, thoughts don't think. Yes? T: Weird, my thoughts stop when I try this. I: Ok good, thoughts don't think. Now what's doing the focusing?

T: I know the answer is 'noone" but still feels like it's initiated by 'something'. Though just realized on a walk that the "I"s that I had are the same "I"s that I've had in my past. It's the SAME "I" thought. It's obvious it doesn't reference a real identity.

I: Lol yea, it's like a log statement. What do you see when you look at humans? T: self obsessed, worried, planning for the future, regretting the past, calculating advantage/disadvantage. Missing out on experience by filtering it or relying on the shortcut of stored reactions

I: Seems like ur through. Any questions? T: R u sure? I believe you but everything still is wrapped in "I" I: I'm not asking u to believe me, I'm asking u to check. You can't agree ur way free.

T: I'm encountering fear. I: Look behind it. T: I had a dream last night. Everyone was carrying around cakes. Mine had my name on it, it was "I". Very clearly I realized that "I" pointed to nothing.

I: Ooooh, first dream liberation. cooool. T: Feel like I have a cake hangover... I: Lol haha. Try again, what is "Tom"?

T: Still there, but more transparent. Laughing at previous self for wanting to be so important. I: Yay! enjoy ur liberation. *Bound by REALLY wanting to be important and special.

10/ Lars(L) L: I can only feel no-self in art. Why not in all activities? In normal life I can see the gate and am never through it. E: When you lose self in painting u have no idea how it started. show ur mind this. there is no manager who goes "Ok begin, become the brush."