Non-binary people can be people who were assigned male at birth (AMAB). Are they welcome as well? When I see non-binary people invited along with women but not trans men, I assume AMAB non-binary people are not welcome.
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A "women's only" space can also be transphobic. The warning signs for toxicity towards non-binary people and trans women are discussed in this awesome blog post:https://medium.com/@maybekatz/on-the-design-of-womens-spaces-72bf8f396dc0 …
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I recently went to an event that was for "women and non-binary" (cringe). I went because I knew the organizer and suspected it was probably a safe space. Despite wearing a they/them pronoun button, one woman still referred to the entire group at our table as "ladies".
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It was great otherwise. It was good to connect with people who shared some of my experiences with gender discrimination and needed similar self-care. But it still felt like I, as a non-binary person, didn't quite fit there. As I transition more on HRT, that feeling will get worse
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If you truly want to support non-binary people, make your "women's" space also inclusive of trans women, trans men, gender fluid people, and agender people. Call it "Gender Diversity in Tech" instead of "Women and Non-binary in Tech". It's shorter, clearer, and more inclusive.
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I basically never attend anything labeled as for “women and non-binary” for all the same reasons and I don’t understand why organizers of underrepped/marginalized gender events insist on excluding trans men if they include non-binary ppl specifically bc they want to be inclusive.
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I’m read as male 90% of the time so people who don’t know me would likely assume I’m male and unwelcome. Even though I am non-binary I feel a lot more comfortable if the space is advertised as open to trans men, which is like maybe 5% of the time at best.
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Yeah, I'm going to be in that space in a year or so, once I get top surgery. I'm going to have to reevaluate whether I go to PyLadies. I know a lot of the organizers, but I also feel like that means I'm given an exception to who they think "should" attend. :-/
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I’ve found this is usually why women’s orgs start including non-binary ppl: they want to be inclusive of those who were already there, w/o thinking about larger implications. I think it’s also why they forget AMAB non-binary ppl exist & why they don’t think to include trans men.
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It sucks as someone who identified as a woman and experienced misogyny for so long to lose that community but any time I’ve been even on the fringes of those orgs I’ve felt super uncomfortable and invalidated so now I just avoid them. It just sucks.
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Same. :-/ There's a few women in tech orgs that I would never go back to because I know it's gonna make me hella uncomfortable.
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been meaning to ask: how do you feel about "theyself"? I've seen people use that reflexive pronoun instead of "themselves" because the they is singular. Is that normal, a misunderstanding of the pronoun, or just a "meh" situation?
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Oh yeah "themself" is another option I've seen nb folks use. It's just "theyself" I find weird (but unsure if it's a thing nb folks use)https://twitter.com/argonblue/status/1053709448487882757?s=19 …
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I've only seen "theyself" being used in a context where the person using it is not nb themselves
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Eh, it's too awkward for me to use.
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thought so, thanks. seems to me that it's mostly people still coming to grips with singular they that end up doing this (but there may be folks that genuinely prefer "theyself", idk)
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While we’re on this tangent, I think we can start dropping the phrase “identify as…” I think of the word enby as both an adjective and noun… do you think “women or enbies” would work here?
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I know a lot of non-binary people who hate the word “enby” and don’t use it for themselves
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Oh? Hmm.
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Yeah, some people feel it's too "cute" and it kind of pushes non-binary folks into the "woman lite" category.
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Oh well
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