Conversation

I like signal. Moxie is awesome. But this tweet is misleading. They launched Mobilecoin,… which IMHO is baked by investors. They should have went with Bitcoin. True Cypherpunk spirit.

Quote Tweet

Moxie Marlinspike

@moxie

Dec 2, 2021

Signal has no data to sell, no advertisers to sell it to, no investors to benefit from such a sale. As a nonprofit, the sole beneficiaries of Signal are the people who use it, so it is up to the people using Signal to sustain it: signal.org/blog/become-a-

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Signal did not create MC. Have said many times would support integrating BTC or LN if it is made to be private, fast, no/low fee, works on mobile (doesn't require scanning every tx to identify your own), etc. No takers so far, just ppl saying we should do it without those things.

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I guess a tradeoff would have been a non custodial wallet with centralized validation. But also, using BIP158 block filter would allow it to use little bandwidth to scan for txns. But true decentralization comes at a price (for now, less of a problem in future).

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Let us know when the future arrives! We can’t ship something to hundreds of millions of people that is not usable, not ready, or not private.

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Look at Muun (

) as an example. The future is already here. No more excuses.

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How is that an example? It's a firebase app that is built as a thin view onto plaintext server side state. Signal can not be built that way.

Jonas Schnelli

@_jonasschnelli_

Replying to

@moxie

How complex would it be to run a stateless server side validation and if users want higher privacy, allow them to download BIP158 blockfilters (look at github.com/lightninglabs/)? Maybe BIP158 as default. I bet most Signal users would want Bitcoin rather than a pump'n'dump coin.

github.com

GitHub - lightninglabs/neutrino: Privacy-Preserving Bitcoin Light Client

Privacy-Preserving Bitcoin Light Client. Contribute to lightninglabs/neutrino development by creating an account on GitHub.

8:29 PM · Dec 24, 2021

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That is a link to a project that would require all users to download all block headers + addditional data and also explicitly says “don’t use this.” Signal exists in the non speculative world where the software has to work. Glad ppl are working on diff projects, lmk when ready.

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and

No, most Signal users like me want tech that works and that is private. They aren’t interested in your religion or your fairy tales.