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_awbery_'s profile
Rin'dzin
Rin'dzin
Rin'dzin
@_awbery_

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Rin'dzin

@_awbery_

(functional(itinerant)) Intertwingularitarian

Chania
Joined December 2016

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    1. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz May 3

      Kegan stage 3 fixes belief disparities to the environment. Stage 4 fixes epistemology. Stage 5 fixes the regulation architecture. Spiritual and religious enlightenment practices look scary to be because they skip and often even actively circumvent stage 4.

      3 replies 3 retweets 13 likes
    2. Rin'dzin‏ @_awbery_ May 3
      Replying to @Plinz @danlistensto

      Kegan Stage 5 by definition includes stage 4, otherwise it is not stage 5. It’s not possible to skip or circumvent a stage in the Kegan framework. Spiritual practice can do weird stuff, but it can’t cause stage 5 to be not stage 5. 5 *is* increased understanding of 4.

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    3. Dan Garfield‏ @danlistensto May 3
      Replying to @_awbery_ @Plinz

      I don't think you're really disagreeing with him? I think it's true that there are some systems that try to circumvent or leapfrog over stages. That doesn't actually work (leads to various traps and dead-ends) but it is commonly attempted.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Rin'dzin‏ @_awbery_ May 3
      Replying to @danlistensto @Plinz

      Yes, I am disagreeing: the Kegan stages are presented as linearly dependent. So to say that one stage can be circumvented misunderstands how the system purports to function. 1/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Rin'dzin‏ @_awbery_ May 3
      Replying to @_awbery_ @danlistensto @Plinz

      This is not a comment about whether or not I agree with the Kegan stages as a model. The point is that, according to the model, a stage cannot be circumvented. So ‘to circumvent a Kegan stage’ makes no sense. Something else is intended.

      8:35 AM - 3 May 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Garfield‏ @danlistensto May 3
          Replying to @_awbery_ @Plinz

          > That doesn't actually work (leads to various traps and dead-ends) yes, exactly. the Kegan model is linear. attempting to circumvent a stage doesn't work. the systems that attempt this clearly differ with Kegan's model. I tend to think Kegan is on to something though.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Rin'dzin‏ @_awbery_ May 3
          Replying to @danlistensto @Plinz

          Yes, I do agree, I’ve found it helps explain relational stances very well. I couln’t put the Evolving Self down when I was reading it. Thought lots of it was excellent, though quite dense.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz May 3
          Replying to @_awbery_ @danlistensto

          The unadultered Kegan model is brilliant but likely wrong as a literal model of development. I like it better it as a philosophical framework to gesture at what particular parts of the self are being formed in what way. But it is apparently not entirely linear/sequential.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. End of conversation

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