Kegan stage 3 fixes belief disparities to the environment. Stage 4 fixes epistemology. Stage 5 fixes the regulation architecture. Spiritual and religious enlightenment practices look scary to be because they skip and often even actively circumvent stage 4.
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In the literal Kegan framework, you are correct. But in practice, a lot of people are self modifying without having autonomous truth criteria, so they are effectively being authored by their gurus.
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I don't think you're really disagreeing with him? I think it's true that there are some systems that try to circumvent or leapfrog over stages. That doesn't actually work (leads to various traps and dead-ends) but it is commonly attempted.
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Yes, I am disagreeing: the Kegan stages are presented as linearly dependent. So to say that one stage can be circumvented misunderstands how the system purports to function. 1/2
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This is not a comment about whether or not I agree with the Kegan stages as a model. The point is that, according to the model, a stage cannot be circumvented. So ‘to circumvent a Kegan stage’ makes no sense. Something else is intended.
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> That doesn't actually work (leads to various traps and dead-ends) yes, exactly. the Kegan model is linear. attempting to circumvent a stage doesn't work. the systems that attempt this clearly differ with Kegan's model. I tend to think Kegan is on to something though.
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Yes, I do agree, I’ve found it helps explain relational stances very well. I couln’t put the Evolving Self down when I was reading it. Thought lots of it was excellent, though quite dense.
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The unadultered Kegan model is brilliant but likely wrong as a literal model of development. I like it better it as a philosophical framework to gesture at what particular parts of the self are being formed in what way. But it is apparently not entirely linear/sequential.
End of conversation
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