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__agwa's profile
Andrew Ayer
Andrew Ayer
Andrew Ayer
@__agwa

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Andrew Ayer

@__agwa

Bootstrapped founder of @SSLMate, where I make SSL certificates easier and do #webpki and #CertificateTransparency stuff.

Cambridge, MA + SF Bay Area
agwa.name
Joined November 2011

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    1. Andrew Ayer‏ @__agwa 16 Dec 2018
      • Report Tweet
      • Report NetzDG Violation
      Replying to @iangcarroll @kevinriggle

      The trouble is that the downsides of pinning are externalized onto the whole WebPKI.

      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 16 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @iangcarroll @__agwa @kevinriggle

      I agree that pinning in a mobile application is a reasonable pattern. It is one that requires planning and management in that you can DoS yourself. I don’t see this as externalized risk. I do question if a government agency is competent enough to deploy it safely.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Andrew Ayer‏ @__agwa 16 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @iangcarroll @kevinriggle

      App store updates can't be rolled out immediately, and not everyone updates right away, so there's always risk of some breakage. Here's an example where the cost of an app developer's poor planning and management was externalized: https://cabforum.org/pipermail/public/2016-November/008989.html …

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 16 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @__agwa @iangcarroll @kevinriggle

      Yes, this is what I said, but I don’t get the externalized argument. If I pin and down my site it is my site, and my business is harmed not your.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Andrew Ayer‏ @__agwa 16 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @iangcarroll @kevinriggle

      Symantec misissued a cert with a sequential serial number to avoid breaking a mobile app which had botched their pinning. That's absolutely an externalized cost.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 16 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @__agwa @iangcarroll @kevinriggle

      The mississiance was the externalizations, not the pinning.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Andrew Ayer‏ @__agwa 16 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @iangcarroll @kevinriggle

      It's not just the misissuance, but also difficulty distrusting a CA, because a site can't swap out their cert until they update their mobile app and a sufficient number of users upgrade.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 16 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @__agwa @iangcarroll @kevinriggle

      One leads to the next; the missisuamce (the externalization) necessitates the distrust. Pinning in an application doesn’t even necessitate the use of the WebPKI and arguably should not; the pinning is not the root cause of externalization; malfeasance is.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Andrew Ayer‏ @__agwa 16 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @iangcarroll @kevinriggle

      If they're not using the WebPKI then everything is good, and way better than hand-rolling ... whatever that JSON is. I wouldn't call that pinning though; that's just using a private CA.

      12:51 PM - 16 Dec 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 16 Dec 2018
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          Replying to @__agwa @iangcarroll @kevinriggle

          Still pinning to a specific CA; the decision to use publicly trusted PKI is orthogonal.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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