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_Vimothy_'s profile
Vimothy
Vimothy
Vimothy
@_Vimothy_

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Vimothy

@_Vimothy_

Joined May 2013

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    1. Roger Rabit‏ @charliebrown991 Sep 26
      Replying to @BDSixsmith

      Good piece Ben! But i wonder if there isnt a form of Obamas Right Side of History still going on here. If conservatives had successfully maintained a sense of tradition and order would conservatives even need to argue against liberal movements in good faith.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Roger Rabit‏ @charliebrown991 Sep 26
      Replying to @charliebrown991 @BDSixsmith

      Wouldnt many conservatives just dismiss many of these liberal positions out of "disgust" or "revulsion"?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Avery James‏ @averyfjames Sep 26
      Replying to @charliebrown991 @BDSixsmith

      It works until it doesn't. For example, I predict the right has at most 5 years to keep referring to mere stigma of prostitution as an argument against it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Ben Sixsmith‏ @BDSixsmith Sep 26
      Replying to @averyfjames @charliebrown991

      Yes I think you're right. Conservatives are far more naive when it comes to assuming that public opinion favours them than leftists are.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    5. Monty‏ @Monty_Marmion Sep 26
      Replying to @BDSixsmith @averyfjames @charliebrown991

      Silent majority mate! So silent you can't even hear it scream...

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Monty‏ @Monty_Marmion Sep 26
      Replying to @Monty_Marmion @BDSixsmith and

      Of course, the "logic" of the two creeds has much to do with this. Leftists are explicitly dedicated to the transformation of public opinion (not quite the same thing as popular sentiment, of course). Rightists claim, often tendentiously, to represent "common sense."

      2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
    7. Roger Rabit‏ @charliebrown991 Sep 26
      Replying to @Monty_Marmion @BDSixsmith @averyfjames

      righties forgot that you need to invest in public works to establish common sense. You cant just scream "well thats big government" and expect this values and traditions to stick

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Monty‏ @Monty_Marmion Sep 26
      Replying to @charliebrown991 @BDSixsmith @averyfjames

      Certainly, when the "thin liberalism" of the Right meets the "thick liberalism" of the Left, the latter almost always prevails (as the more extreme version of anything tends to be prevail when confronted by a less developed version of itself).

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    9. Vimothy‏ @_Vimothy_ Sep 26
      Replying to @Monty_Marmion @charliebrown991 and

      it's hard for right liberals to argue with a position that takes its (shared) premises to their logical conclusions

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    10. Avery James‏ @averyfjames Sep 26
      Replying to @_Vimothy_ @Monty_Marmion and

      The left is developing liberalism towards leftism as documented w/ Mill and other converts of that nature. I don't know that the right *has* to abandon liberalism altogether, it just has to apply a few critiques of it.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Vimothy‏ @_Vimothy_ Sep 26
      Replying to @averyfjames @Monty_Marmion and

      the problem is that it's hard to develop a principled critique of liberalism if you already accept its core principles. you end up arguing for what seems like ad hoc exceptions based on personal prejudice, which is not inspiring or even very appealing to many

      9:45 AM - 26 Sep 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • Roger Rabit Monty Ben Sixsmith
      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Avery James‏ @averyfjames Sep 26
          Replying to @_Vimothy_ @Monty_Marmion and

          On the contrary, I think "ad hoc exceptions based on personal prejudice" have proved very appealing to political masses, but I see your point on the actual principles of an intellectual tradition as opposed to a political movement.

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Vimothy‏ @_Vimothy_ Sep 26
          Replying to @averyfjames @Monty_Marmion and

          sry, should have qualified my final statement. I find exceptions based on personal prejudice appealing as well, provided it's my prejudice. in the long run tho this lacks widespread intellectual appeal and isn't coherent enough to provide an alternative to liberalism

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. Vimothy‏ @_Vimothy_ Sep 26
          Replying to @_Vimothy_ @averyfjames and

          hence the common complaint that conservatives have failed to conserve those things that matter most and have instead negotiated a protracted retreat

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Avery James‏ @averyfjames Sep 26
          Replying to @_Vimothy_ @Monty_Marmion and

          The safe middle class suburbia of order and good-paying non-college jobs that so many rank and file right-wing Republican voters desire is certainly lost, but it seems foolish to pretend it was an long-held tradition in America, as opposed to a result of New Deal liberalism.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Avery James‏ @averyfjames Sep 26
          Replying to @averyfjames @_Vimothy_ and

          If you think I'm drawing up a strawman, feel free to point to broader decline in Christianity, community, etc. But I think a lot of right-wing voters saying "Paul Ryan hasn't conserved a damn thing!" are correct and yet have far less higher ambitions than you do.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Vimothy‏ @_Vimothy_ Sep 27
          Replying to @averyfjames @Monty_Marmion and

          I don't necessarily disagree with you here, except to note that both new deal liberalism and what republican voters desire are effects as well as causes

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        8. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Monty‏ @Monty_Marmion Sep 26
          Replying to @_Vimothy_ @averyfjames and

          And THAT problem points to the large and difficult problem of what the relation really is between "the history of ideas" and "history." Certainly, I think, in the former, "extremism wins," especially in a democratic age à la Tocqueville, when people struggle with any but the

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Monty‏ @Monty_Marmion Sep 26
          Replying to @Monty_Marmion @_Vimothy_ and

          most general ideas. But history isn't simply the unfolding of the logic of ideas (a far from "conservative" idea in itself). Man is a rational animal (or so I believe), so what he thinks matters, but whether he really thinks what he thinks he thinks, whether and how he acts on

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. Monty‏ @Monty_Marmion Sep 26
          Replying to @Monty_Marmion @_Vimothy_ and

          what he thinks he thinks—this is shaped by circumstances, themselves not simply a function of will or ideas (a more genuinely conservative idea).

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        5. Mr. X‏ @GeorgKennan Sep 26
          Replying to @Monty_Marmion @_Vimothy_ and

          I have a hard time with some of the catholic accounts of liberalism as a force leading to some determined point, rather than a "paradigm" within which debate over things which take place within the "forces of history" - ofc existing within such a paradigm has consequences

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Mr. X‏ @GeorgKennan Sep 26
          Replying to @GeorgKennan @Monty_Marmion and

          But it's jarring to hear the latest fad sometimes explained as the inexorable endpoint of "liberalism"...

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        7. End of conversation

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