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As for the go-to definition of classic awakening, the short version is that you realize that there’s no such thing inside you as a self. There’s much more after that, but that’s considered the basic “qualification.” (And, yes, I’m aware of all that’s problematic @ that def.)

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and

Yeah, the other version (same thing, differently stated) is realizing "I'm just the witness". Which you get seems to depend on your tradition/previous learning/framing. Or that's my understanding, I am (probably) willing to defer. But awakening is not enlightenment.

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Ian Welsh

@iwelsh

Mar 9, 2018

awakening is when you get your first experiential proof that you are not all that crap. So, for example, my first awakening got me "I am not my personality". Didn't get me "I am not my body." Further awakenings got me other stuff.

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and

as for enlightenment. /shrug/ there are a fair number of definitions that seem reasonable "I am everything/nothing", Jiva-mukti (end of new conditioning), the dissolving and reassembly of sense data, etc... Not sure which is "enlightenment". Am sure I am not enlightened.

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however, other people use the words in other ways, and I am not saying they are wrong. This is just how I used them. I will say that this causes problem. My first main teacher told me I was enlightened. I said "uh, don't think so". He meant what I mean by awakened.

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Cinder

@Triquetrea

Much as I agree with many of your points, I think you are falling victim to some of the same language games here: the usefulness of wanting to get enlightened is entirely dependent on what is meant by it, and the awareness one has of the ramifications *in context* - which varies.

7:58 PM · Mar 9, 2018Twitter Web Client

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It's true & worth entertaining that most of the traditions find "seeking" or wanting to get enlightened problematic, but there are pretty clear reasons why - and not of the "starts Buddhist flame wars" variety, since that's more of an opt-in sort of problem, at least on this end.

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Much as I like to mock the "Western Twitter Buddhist" phenomenon, I have yet to encounter one that would follow me around to flame - and would block them if I did. And I talk about awakening, like, lots - tasteless or not.

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