Conversation

Sane interpretation of no-self: the self is an illusion, so I don't have to believe thoughts derived from having one. Real-world interpretation of no-self: the self is an illusion, so if you use personal pronouns or have personal preferences, this means you are not awakened.

Ian Welsh

@iwelsh

Feb 19, 2018

I'm not sure they aren't attainable. There are certainly accounts of Jiva Mukti. High level detachable energy bodies are quite common. A fair # of people claim full time non dual awareness. Full witnessing has been attained.

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I see how you can have serious doubts about energy bodies and Jiva Mutki (I mean, I do...), but nondual awareness and witnessing are not so different from other more-or-less permanent changes in perspective. Those are mundane & dirt common. Unless Nick parsed as all four at once

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One has serious doubts about energy bodies till one gets one or meets someone who has one and uses it in a way that is brutally obvious. I don't think true non dual is all that common. Very rare, except there are a lot of people in the world. Full time witnessing is pretty rare.

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I've had experiences that fit the cosmology easily enough. I can sense people's personal presence in a way that certainly *feels* energetic (and some do have WAY more) but I don't have much reason to believe it isn't just synaesthesia or something. Yet, anyway.