Conversation

Ian Welsh
@iwelsh
As a friend pointed out, a lot of American Buddhists seem to reject the 3rd and 4th noble truths. I don't see how you can do that and still call yourself a Buddhist.
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Ian Welsh
@iwelsh
more and more I read these folks, and I can only think "well, you've got something, and I'm not denying you're an advanced meditator. But this doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Buddha's teachings."
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Ian Welsh
@iwelsh
Now, of course, nothing wrong with rejecting the Buddha's teachings. My first real teacher did and does. But it's not OK to say "I'm a Buddhist and there is no escape from suffering."
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Ian Welsh
@iwelsh
I also find people who think that modern materialist metaphysics obviously trump mystical views of past masters. Especially since the Newtonian clockwork universe model is collapsing towards panpsychism anyway.
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Ian Welsh
@iwelsh
"Obviously atheistic materialism is correct" is not a very smart position, it's just conformity in action. Maybe the old masters were full of shit, but most of them were seeking something that was more than just a psychological state.
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Ian Welsh
@iwelsh
As for the world/body loathing of a lot of Buddhism, that's not necessary for renunciation. Detachment is the core, and loathing is a corrective tool, not a final stance. (I think it's a dangerous tool, but that appears to have been the initial intent.)
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Ian Welsh
@iwelsh
Renunciation is useful for a large number of reasons. It simplifies the process massively. You can, yes, do the job without renunciation, but renunciation appears to be genuinely the easier path. To renounce, people get confused and then hate what they renounce.
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Cinder
@Triquetrea
Replying to
@iwelsh
The renunciate paths have the virtue of showing little danger besides potentially turning you into an emotionally stunted bigot, and making you miss out on some of the finer things in life, an- I jest, but there's an element of truth to it, I think.
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Ian Welsh
@iwelsh
Replying to
@Triquetrea
the dangers of the tantra paths are far, far greater, both to yourself and other people. Remember the shit the Chinese found in Tibetan dungeons.
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Cinder
@Triquetrea
Replying to
@iwelsh
I was about to say that I've only just about ended my life in a profoundly non-useful manner several times with tantric practices! All the same, it seems to be my path, and is finally working better for me. My name is rooted in old Germanic word for "cinder", after all...
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