something to ponder for a second:
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This post was popular on both /r/feminism and /r/mensrights
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here's how I think I think about it
there is a system – some call it the patriarchy, some call it the kyriarchy, I don't care abt the names
it is a system of control via cruelty & abuse, and I'm making the case here that SCHOOL is a part of this system
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I think that's all I have to say about that for now. Newer friends may be curious about some of my older threads on these topics
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Many men grow up in Menworld, where you get bullied, mocked, beaten, threatened, etc for all sorts of minor transgressions (being too emotional, being wrong, etc). To those guys, those seem to be the rules of life; how the world works. The powerful take from the weak, etc
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oh yeah, cultural expectations. In my experience men are supposed to
- take initiative
- make the first move
- be confident (ie not needy, not insecure)
- be smooth, charismatic
- know how to have a good time
if you have these skills (I'd like to think I do), life becomes easy
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but if you *don't* have those skills, you're in for a rough time. you're going to receive mockery and abuse for your incompetence. you're going to be denied intimacy. you're going to be made to feel worthless. your complaints and protests will be laughed at
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I know the phrase "denied intimacy" veers dangerously close to "women owe men sex/intimacy" – let me be clear, absolutely not. women don't owe men shit. in fact men can help *each other* with the intimacy deficit, and we really should
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how rare and precious this is, and how sorely lacking in the world. it's up to us men to provide this to each other
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circling back to the deficit scenario – it's a kind of poverty, isn't it? Abject helplessness. I remember when I was a lonely, angry dude – I was lucky to have stories, narratives and ideas that kept me focused on who I wanted to become. Without that, I would've been shitty too
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but so let's go back to the expectations. how does school – society — civilization – train boys/men to be confident, smooth, handle failure and rejection well? to be able to build wholesome, nourishing relationships with other men, and with women?
IMO, it doesn't. it atomizes us
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soooo ok. what can we do? what are the solutions?
realistically, what I'm really looking for + trying to do here is to just persuade a handful of dudes to make a bit more of an effort to look out for each other. to help younger dudes in turn with their fears and insecurities
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I like this way of framing it. becoming a Shitty Dude is partially a systemic thing – when you're in the Shitty Dude Downward Spiral, you're almost *destined* to get shittier. I've seen it happen, and I've helped pull a handful of guys out of it
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Replying to @visakanv
Totally agree. In some situations, let's say homelessness or drug addiction (2 very obviously shitty things), the narrative is about providing help or changing the environment.
But when Shitty Dudes come around, another obvious problem, they are on their own & it's their fault.
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Got any advice for that? Got a friend who has been going down this spiral for a while.
And while he's getting to be progressively more of a pain in the ass, I think he deserves a shot. Maybe.
Or maybe I'm just sad at potentially losing a friend. Either way, tips appreciated.
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it's very difficult... my playbook is to be patient and persistent in asking questions from a sort of gentle space. try to invite them and involve them in nourishing group activities if possible. but as with drug addiction I guess, you can't really *make* them stop
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Tsk. Not really sure how much can be done. We live in different cities.
His last two visits have made it perfectly clear that he can't be trusted to be decent, and I don't particularly feel like visiting him now.
Would have to be a shared trip w/friends. Or just giving up.