Don't know much about KW, other than that he was supposed to be the Messiah, but it didn't quite work out.
Was commenting on his photo in your profile.
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Understood. Don't know where the 'Messiah' perspective arose... I viewed him as a synthesizer... 'integralist' of course. I first came across him in late 80's - early 90's. "Spectrum of Consciousness" He was associated with another 'influence' - Franklin Jones. AKA: "Adi Da".
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Replying to
ah yes, the greatest ever realized being — 9th stage — better than Buddha and Jesus put together; goes to live on an island in Fiji, doesn't interact with any other teachers, says no being at his level will ever be required, evah.
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Replying to
Exactly. In my estimation, they (KW & Da) 'touched' the hem of the garment but couldn't reside in the 'holy of holy's'.
Insanity and megalomania are prominent diseases among the 'enlightened'. 'Da's' final books were a tour of both... Absurd and truly pathetic.
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'Note': Alan Watts 'endorsed' Franklin Jones (Da) book: "The Knee of Listening" with: "A rare being... he knows what it's all about".
Based on the phenomenon of states/stages it seems more than 'likely' that such 'ex-periences' come/go... 'Realization', 'unstable'. Until?...
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This thread is pertinent:
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Awakening and psychological growth are largely orthogonal. While one can definitely help the other, they are entirely different things. You can be very awake and still be a total asshole.
From my viewpoint, awakening is just the beginning of the path, and nothing like the end.
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I don't get that at all.
If there is awakening, there is awareness of cause, condition, and effect.
This includes pacification of kleshas.
Dunno what it means to have kleshas pacified, and still be an egomaniac, narcissist, psychopath, etc.
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I met a Western lama, visited his center.
He was kind to me, was a good teacher, but I found his interaction with his own students to be abusive.
His sangha behaved like adult children of an alcoholic.
Did he have some genuine experience? Perhaps.
Was he awakened? I doubt it.
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Corollary issue: Mahayana-style interpretations of awakening are just one among several potentially viable ones.
If you're using the same word to blanket describe different phenomena, you can say 'this ain't it' without having to discuss your priors. And those may be wrong.
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Yes.
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If one can't accept wider or narrower definitions of awakening, not to mention what it's supposed to be for, it doesn't make sense to discuss "awakening".
The lineage-specific words serve better for those purposes.
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