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The idea that leaving or remaining from an anti-left trading bloc that's about to collapse anyway, in an economy about to collapse anyway, has a determinant influence on UK material conditions over & above the difference between collapsing neoliberalism or ecosocdem is absurd.

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James Melville

@JamesMelville

Dec 28, 2018

Jeremy Corbyn wants to end austerity, protect jobs, improve the lives of the poor and vulnerable. I admire him for that. But this becomes an impossible task after Brexit - as jobs are at risk and the poor and vulnerable will be hit hardest. I wish he could see this juxtaposition.

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On what timescale? There have been collapses to last centuries and collapses to last days. I don't think it's a given that we're in for "days" this time. Rather the opposite.

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So we're probably looking at a couple of decades for collapse, as opposed to the couple of centuries it took the Roman Empire.

Cinder

@Triquetrea

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@Grimeandreason

Yes, fair enough as a conjecture. So in that timescale, leaving the EU is enough to do serious damage to many people. There are other reasons to think it should be done, but I think it's pretty clear it's not value-neutral. It was designed to be punishing, and all that.

11:16 AM · Dec 28, 2018Twitter Web Client

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Ideally, we would remain and reform. But I see no hope for the EU to reform. It has to go left to avoid disaster, it works by consensus, & it now include fascists. The time for reform was the fall of the Soviet Union. At the latest, 2008. UK as outside example could do good.

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Yeah, well, for me the main appeal of Brexit is it's more likely to force structural change in the EU than remaining. Remaining is a proof of concept for the treaty elements, as Greece was for the Eurozone. That these "proofs" kill and impoverish citizens doesn't bother them.

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