I agree, this brings us full circle to the beginning of the discussion, before you jumped in. The less 'agency' I perceive, the more I am able to respond intuitively and naturally to any given situation.
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I think "defeat" and "surrender" may be language that is not helpful. I just think of it as looking at reality clearly. I'm not defeated, I'm not surrendering (to who?) I'm just acknowledging how much control I have.
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I really think it depends on your upbringing. If you come from a monotheistic tradition, than I think it can be more helpful. But if you grow up as a scientific materialist, than perhaps not.
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God, if you can believe in a benevolent one, is a great hack and fast road. You have to be very very advanced before it is necessary to "kill the Buddha/God". Most people will never reach that level, even many "masters."
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Yeah. There's a whole class of advanced statements that are true at certain levels and really harmful to anyone not very advanced.
"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."
"Do as thou will is the whole of the law."
"There is nothing you can do."
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Absolutely. At the same time, I went through many years of confusion over seemingly contradictory ideas, and yet I emerged stronger for it I think. The key, as always, is practice practice practice. Get to know your experiential reality before taking any claim too seriously.
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yeah. Also people say "X is obviously nonsense" a bit too often, imo. They don't have the accomplishments to know, in many cases.
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Yeah, good point. Get to know the sensations in the body and the sensations/mental moments that make up the sense of self, and sort out the rest later.
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This is why I questioned @Failed_Buddhist with "words, words, words"!
One of the clearest shifts I've had is to lose interest in talking about practice. It sometimes sticks as a habit, but it feels very not rewarding.
"What is your experience like?" is the only question left.
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If someone describes any sensory underpinnings e.g. of an awakening to me, I instantly know if I am familiar with it.
Jargon is both unhelpful - because it's used in different-but-similar ways - and disguises experience and the lack thereof alike.
language is sometimes helpful for practice, even for relatively experienced practitioners, because it should guide you to experiences you haven't had. And experiences are a bit of a trap: the pursuit of states can be a problem.
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I'm not talking about the pursuit of states, and I don't think we're talking about the same point in a broader context either.
But that's my bad with the way I formulated it.
I'm saying I find long, jargon-filled philosophical discussions to be less than helpful, mostly.
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