Conversation

Cinder
@Triquetrea
Social democracy is a centrist ideology. Neoliberalism is the start of the right, lacking only comprehensive social conservatism. It's not centrist at all. Some liberals are more centrist, tho. Definitive left starts at socialism and gradually slides through communism & others.
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Ian Welsh
@iwelsh
Yes, Dem-Socialism has a lot in common post-war or New Deal liberalism. But I gave up the fight to call it liberalism a while ago. Just a lost fight, imo. Corbyn is basically the same, more left than Sanders, but not very left in 50s/60s terms. twitter.com/matthewstoller
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Ben King
@Grimeandreason
Replying to
@Triquetrea
Objectively, I would agree. But the Overton window has shifted so far, social democracy is seen as a threat to capitalists. Granted, it isn't much of one, but many of them don't see it that way. I'd regard SocDem as the beginning of the left, especially in western context.
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Ben King
@Grimeandreason
Replying to
@Triquetrea
I think it was more a case of cleaning the window so people were suddenly aware of how much they had moved. Many are still confused, thinking that they've moved place entirely. It's just become a whole lot clearer, quickly, IMO.
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Cinder
@Triquetrea
Replying to
@Grimeandreason
Nah. Trump made his own ideas possible tp discuss, but he also widened the scope of possible opposition. "Fuck, the Dems will lose again!" is a powerful motivator.
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Ben King
@Grimeandreason
Replying to
@Triquetrea
IMO, Trump came after, as an effect more than a cause. Much of what he's doing already had precedent, either at federal or state level. Much of what he's saying had been building under Obama, via the Tea Party.
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Cinder
@Triquetrea
Replying to
@Grimeandreason
I thought that was the entire idea of the Overton window. Trump explicated the racism, the imperialism and the powermongering corruption. Gave it a face bigger than Glenn Beck. And now people are so scared of him, the unspeakable is spoken of constantly.
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