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TimSweeneyEpic's profile
Tim Sweeney
Tim Sweeney
Tim Sweeney
@TimSweeneyEpic

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Tim Sweeney

@TimSweeneyEpic

Epic Games founder & CEO

epicgames.com
Joined August 2013

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    1. Arseny Kapoulkine‏ @zeuxcg Feb 1
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      Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

      If you are happy with the cost of the indirect call, what stops you from creating this wrapper in a statically compiled language without GC on stack? I don't think these are related. The big issue *is* the indirect call, which can be prohibitively expensive.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Feb 1
      • Report Tweet
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      Replying to @zeuxcg

      If a subtyping relationship is implemented by a conversion like vector<t>(const vector<u>&) that works by holding a reference to its input, then the dangling reference issues will be explosive. This led C++ down the string_view path to distinguish epemeral things.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Arseny Kapoulkine‏ @zeuxcg Feb 1
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      Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

      It seems orthogonal to me. If you want a typed view into the original vector, you need the lifetime to match - but it doesn’t seem too different from passing a reference to a vector to some other system without any type conversions?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Feb 1
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      Replying to @zeuxcg

      What all of these subtyping-through-zero-copy-sharing-through-manual-memory-management solutions have in common is that, in a large program, the combinatorial complexity of all of these lifetime relationships is impossible for a human to comprehend. Thus libraries don't do it.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    5. Jonas Bötel‏ @CodeLumpN Feb 1
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      Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic @zeuxcg

      I agree. But you are suggesting to have the computer take care of the combinatorial complexity instead. That still doesn't solve the fundamental problem that it's still impossible for a human to comprehend.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jonas Bötel‏ @CodeLumpN Feb 1
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      Replying to @CodeLumpN @TimSweeneyEpic @zeuxcg

      Resulting in programs that are technically correct, but run out of memory. Because the actual problem the user had was not memory management but ownership. Memory management is a symptom.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Jonas Bötel‏ @CodeLumpN Feb 1
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      Replying to @CodeLumpN @TimSweeneyEpic @zeuxcg

      To further illustrate my point, imagine a language that never releases memory ever. You can allocate and reference as much as you want. There is no free. The language is both technically correct, trivial to implement, doesn't have any GC/ref-count/RAII issues,

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Jonas Bötel‏ @CodeLumpN Feb 1
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      Replying to @CodeLumpN @TimSweeneyEpic @zeuxcg

      collection views are trivial, object lifetime is trivial. It's also blazingly fast. Everything is objectively better than any GC-based language or manual memory management language can ever be. The only problem would be running out of memory.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Jonas Bötel‏ @CodeLumpN Feb 1
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      Replying to @CodeLumpN @TimSweeneyEpic @zeuxcg

      As programs in any GC-based language grow, they resemble this "never free" model more and more, because none of the languages addressed the fundamental problem the user had in the first place.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Feb 1
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      Replying to @CodeLumpN @zeuxcg

      Unwanted allocations can accumulate when live data reference them unintentionally. Memory waste is a lesser problem than dangling pointers to freed memory that lead to unreproducible bugs or security threats.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Feb 1
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      Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic @CodeLumpN @zeuxcg

      Compare to the update regimen associated with web browser security flaws, compared to the lax attention paid to memory leaks.

      10:25 PM - 1 Feb 2020
      • 1 Like
      • 𝓙𝓸𝓷𝓪𝓼 𝓑𝓮𝓷𝓳𝓪𝓶𝓲𝓷
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Jonas Bötel‏ @CodeLumpN Feb 1
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic @zeuxcg

          We can all agree that dangling pointers are the worst. Which is why languages like Rust and C# exist in the first place. We just disagree on which bullet to bite instead.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Jonas Bötel‏ @CodeLumpN Feb 1
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          Replying to @CodeLumpN @TimSweeneyEpic @zeuxcg

          For the type of software I'm concerned about, pre-allocating most data and stack allocating everything else is a good strategy.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 5 more replies

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