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TimSweeneyEpic's profile
Tim Sweeney
Tim Sweeney
Tim Sweeney
@TimSweeneyEpic

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Tim Sweeney

@TimSweeneyEpic

Epic Games founder & CEO

epicgames.com
Joined August 2013

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    1. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Feb 1
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      Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

      Strong disagree. C++ is slow for reasons that are entirely fixable if you change the compilation model. Rust is slow for some of those reasons, plus some others. I have to say I don't understand, though, what your "array of integers" example represents in the general case.

      3 replies 2 retweets 86 likes
    2. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Feb 1
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      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @TimSweeneyEpic

      i.e. I am not sure what concrete programming problem that is supposed to represent and why it's a problem.

      1 reply 0 retweets 17 likes
    3. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich Feb 1
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      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @TimSweeneyEpic

      Whether and how to implement generics.

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    4. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Feb 1
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      Replying to @BrendanEich @TimSweeneyEpic

      Right, what I don't understand is what part of the problem is not solved by having generics.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    5. Lúcás Meier‏ @cronokirby Feb 1
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      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @BrendanEich @TimSweeneyEpic

      Monomorphized generics come with a heavy cost in terms of compile time.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Feb 1
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      Replying to @cronokirby @BrendanEich @TimSweeneyEpic

      I don't find this to be the case. I mean yes, you are compiling more functions, but those cost the same as your regular functions, so, if that's cheap, you are okay.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Feb 1
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      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @cronokirby @BrendanEich

      Most C++ codebases have grown to the point where compile times aren't ok, and mostly that's due to the combinatorial increase in compile times from instantiation of families of templated types and functions.

      5 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Feb 1
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      Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic @Jonathan_Blow and

      It's not that instantiating vector<t> is slow. It's that all of ancillary things like map<vector<t>,function<t,u>> or whatever grow combinatorially. And mostly these exist because of missing subtyping relations, especially of the missing universal type.

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    9. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Feb 1
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      Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic @cronokirby @BrendanEich

      This combinatorial aspect is definitely there, but, C++ compilation times are *way* slower than they would be with a better compilation model ... superlinearly so. If big programs compiled 1000x faster, would this feel like as big a problem?

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    10. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Feb 1
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      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @TimSweeneyEpic and

      To paraphrase, for sure, compiling this stuff is more work, but if that work is fast, it's probably okay.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
      Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Feb 1
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      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @cronokirby @BrendanEich

      The C++ compiler model problems that come from compiling N files being slower than compiling a single file that concatenates all of them would be solved. The other problems are inherent in all languages that monomorphize all generics.

      11:09 AM - 1 Feb 2020
      • 2 Likes
      • Amirhossein Mirtabatabaeipour Milos Dencev
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Zoid‏ @ZoidCTF Feb 1
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic @Jonathan_Blow and

          And really this is all because the linker for C++ is as dumb as a post. If there was more integration between the compile and link step this compile times would be reduced. I had hoped modules might address this, but I'm not sure if they are heading in the right direction.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich Feb 1
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          Replying to @ZoidCTF @TimSweeneyEpic and

          So true — the 70s compiler / linker design hangover still hurts. Needs a redo.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. 12 more replies
        1. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Feb 1
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic @cronokirby @BrendanEich

          Sure, but scale factors matter. A lot. Assuming compile times are in fact reasonable, I don't see it to be a good tradeoff to do that stuff at runtime instead.

          0 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
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